Tonya J. Long: 0:00

Hello everyone and welcome to RESET with Tonya here on a beautiful day, but from San Jose today instead of Los Gatos. I am so excited to be here with you as we welcome my good friend, Mike Clark. Mike lives out of state and I finally got Mike to be on the show, so we're doing this remote edition today to pull Mike into our conversation here at RESET with Tonya.

Tonya J. Long: 0:26

Mike is not your typical tech guy. I have a lot of tech people on this show. Mike's a finance guy. So Mike is the people that I need and if you're on that journey, you need because somebody's got to know how to work the numbers. And Mike doesn't just work numbers, Mike works people and groups. I think the reason Mike and I connect so closely is because we're connectors and the way Mike runs his finance business is that he doesn't know everything. He doesn't want to, but he wants to have all the people at his fingertips who he can bring to bear when he's helping his clients. So I think that makes Mike really special because he's not just a spreadsheet jockey. He's actually a massive collaborator and coordinator of assets, resources and people. So, Mike, you are my people and I'm so happy that you're here joining us today, welcome. Welcome to RESET.

Mike Clark: 1:17

I love it. Thank you so much. We talked about this.

Tonya J. Long: 1:20

I was like, yes you did, you were immediate, it was great, yes.

Mike Clark: 1:24

Yes, what do you want to talk about? I don't care. Yes, let's do it, so we'll see where this goes.

Tonya J. Long: 1:28

And I've got so many stories I want to talk about that have nothing to do with your profession. The show right Like the owl story.

Mike Clark: 1:34

Let's do it.

Tonya J. Long: 1:45

You remember that owl story, a financial planner I saw you cringe, with no disrespect to anyone in that industry. You are so much more, and so dive into that. What's bringing you joy these days? What are you working on that's bringing you joy?

Mike Clark: 1:53

So this is the tech side of things. One of the things that I'm really excited about is a lot of the education that we're creating. We've been creating, but we're expanding that because of technologies. So we've done a lot of the education that we're creating. We've been creating, but we're expanding that because of technologies. So we've done a lot of interviews with professionals Excellent. Now we're using AI to take those transcripts and actually write eBooks. We're putting together actual courses that are really designed for the business owner and high net worth individuals to get clarity versus just hearing the noise on social media. So really excited about some of the technologies that are coming out that I can utilize to help deliver higher value faster.

Tonya J. Long: 2:35

Okay, I love it.

Mike Clark: 2:36

It's fun to think about.

Tonya J. Long: 2:37

Our connection, the reason all of our calls go double the amount of time we allocate is because we always wind up talking about what's happening, and that's usually with some kind of technology, some kind of gadget, some new application we found. I work a lot in the funding and investment management side these days and I'm looking out at the future with AI and I'm like how are VCs going to differentiate themselves as companies get smaller? And, frankly, there's just a lot less need for people's capital in the way we're going to structure and I hear you already forecasting that. Right, why would people pay you when they can more easily and readily find things online? But you're building that value set of tools in for your clients by giving them content, data and information to help them manage their trajectory, and you get to have fun projects.

Mike Clark: 3:33

They're extremely fun, but this is well to your point, tanya. This is why we go sideways on conversations.

Mike Clark: 3:39

On every conversation and I love it On every side Because the technologies now right. If you look at the traditional way coming from that world in my past life Series 7, broker-dealer, all that stuff Coming from that world and the old school way of shaking hands and going to networking events and traveling all over the world to raise money Now business owners with Reg CF and Reg A and I know this isn't that kind of call and I can't talk about it because my licenses-.

Tonya J. Long: 4:10

People need to be exposed to these opportunities.

Mike Clark: 4:12

Right, but with Reg CF and Reg A, business owners don't necessarily need to go to those angel investors or VCs or private equity, depending on where they are. If they know the tools that they can use on the marketing side and they have a database of followers and buyers already, they can just go. Everybody has their tribe now and they can literally go to their tribe and ask them take this journey with me, yep, and let's see what we can do with this. You already know, like and trust me. You buy my products, you engage with my social content, invest in me, and now you align somebody's values with the opportunity, and this is something that not a lot of people are doing. I love it. And this is something that not a lot of people are doing. I love it. Guys at the top, the VCs, the broker-dealers, are all kiboshing it because it's really messing up their game.

Tonya J. Long: 5:12

Their algorithm of the last 20 years. Their algorithm Right.

Mike Clark: 5:15

Right, like they're the big gorilla in the room and all of a sudden, like this little baby, monkey is coming up and it's coming up fast.

Tonya J. Long: 5:22

I've got that visual. You're the baby monkey. I love it.

Mike Clark: 5:24

I'm the baby monkey. I'm going to come at you like a spider monkey. I love it.

Tonya J. Long: 5:30

Because the thing is the millennial generation younger, they are very focused on mission and values I think more so than our generation and to be able to make that seamless, to look out across how they interact in the digital environments that they're in and be able to return to them seamlessly, a profile of these are things that, by how you engage in the world, these are things that are for you, these are things that you know you're interested in and that you want to make a difference in with your investment.

Mike Clark: 6:04

These are things that you're interested in and that you want to make a difference in with your investment, and I think that is remarkable that you can now receive process and have the capacity to do something with, and you choose that journey versus having and I don't mean to pick on financial planners, but I will. There's this very, very old way of doing business and they haven't adapted either. And a lot of professionals in the financial industries haven't adapted. And it's right here Like it's happening and they're not paying attention to it or they're just reluctant to engage in the process.

Mike Clark: 6:43

But the younger generation, to your point, tanya, like we know the data, I mean, what is it? 80% of them engage in their mobile versus a computer. They do everything on their mobile, which means they can invest heavily right. And they are. And the big banks are seeing that that money shift from the traditional stock markets to these individual platforms. Some bad, some good, but the opportunity is there that a lot of people still haven't plugged into.

Tonya J. Long: 7:10

And this would be a deep rat hole we will not go into.

Tonya J. Long: 7:14

But I think that the personalization of what you can do with them the millennials aren't buying homes is a very simple thing to say. They're not investing in property and they're not getting married and having kids as a general rule, and that frees up capital for them to invest. I think, maybe stronger, more early than my generation, my generation you got married at 22,. You had a kid at 25, 26, and then you were just spending all your money on diapers and then baseball cleats. That's it. And these younger people, they have more and, especially depending on the verticals they've worked in, they have more than they know how to handle. And so, working with resources and advisors who see them, who see who they are, that don't just talk about oh, this has a 22% return, but people who talk about what the impact is and how it fits their values is. I think it's the way we will move forward, so I love it.

Mike Clark: 8:14

And we are. I mean, just take it as an example the real estate industry. Yeah, for the longest of times I mean going back forever real estate was the way to build wealth and it is transitioning now. But there is a whole segment of the financial services industry that you can put in $1,000, $2,000, $3,000 into an investment vehicle that invests into large multifamily units. You can do a Google search on crowdfunding real estate and dozens of platforms come up. So, instead of waiting to spend $20,000 to create a real estate portfolio, one house at a time you can put in $1,000, $2,000, $3,000 and build a real estate portfolio through special purpose vehicles, which is a different conversation. But there are. There is an abundance of opportunities at our fingertips now where before there never was. Yeah, yeah.

Tonya J. Long: 9:13

Yeah.

Mike Clark: 9:14

Oh, we could say here and information.

Tonya J. Long: 9:16

Yes, and I think these folks want to be involved. I'm still the generation where people would pat me on the head and say do what I say, not what I do. These younger generations, they are materially involved in the choices because they're more personal for them. And so, yeah, I think remarkable times are ahead, Switching gears a little bit.

Tonya J. Long: 9:39

I talked about and still in the same realm. But I really want to talk about you being a collaborator and someone who works cross-functionally, how it's not just you and your limitations of what you know because of your network. You've done a little bit of everything. You've raised capital Right, you talked about your special series whatnot? Fund broker. You've done all that and now you manage high wealth clients, high net worth clients, but you've done the investment banking piece that I'm now learning more about. All very interesting, and now you're back to the individual, out of kind of the corporate level financial industry and back to helping individuals. How did those earlier experiences? Because you used to travel to China a lot, you've got some amazing basketball NBA basketball game stories. You did a big show that had to shape how you work with people today. Tell me about it.

Mike Clark: 10:36

It shaped everything, tanya. I mean I'll take it a step back. My undergrad's in kinesiology.

Tonya J. Long: 10:42

Talk about that. Yes, tell people what kinesiology is just in case anybody's.

Mike Clark: 10:47

So if you don't, it's a study of movement, like how your body moves, how the tendons are attached. So basically, I was a physical therapist, for sports teams is what I was, and I didn't come from money, I didn't understand money, and a friend of mine introduced me to a high level financial education that really broke things down on how the wealthy manage their money, and so from that I got into raising capital for a real estate company here in Utah, which is what drove me to China, and I'd never, ever expected to go to China for anything, let alone business, and specifically it was an immigration program called EB-5. And going through that process I really learned how business worked right, how money flow through investments into operations, into different businesses and then, within operations, all the verticals, and I was like this is mind boggling. And what happened was I started to see numbers on a big board and I would just ask simple questions like how are you going to service that debt? I don't get that, and it was a basic question that a lot of people got mad at me for asking.

Mike Clark: 11:53

But as I progressed, I started raising money for other companies and I started to see the gaps that the security exchange attorney would say, oh, that's not my job, that's the business attorney. The business attorney would say look, I don't get involved until that's done, and then I would go to that professional. I don't do that and I'm like are you kidding me? You guys, how do we function and move this company forward if we're not getting the clarity that we need from the advisors? It was always finger pointing and then the worst part was hey, they don't know what they're talking about. You need to structure it this way. Okay, now we're just. There's infighting. This is not how this thing operates. And so I had investors back out politics aside had them back out because of Russia-Trump collusion they were from Russia. Back out because of Russia-Trump collusion they were from Russia. And what I did, tanya is I went back and like how do I structure this?

Tonya J. Long: 12:53

the way I learned, how a team is built for the high net worth individuals, and how do I recreate that?

Mike Clark: 12:55

And then that's it. And just somebody with a need, somebody with a skill, marry those two and step out of the way and let things happen, okay. And so I started to build that, and that's when I was introduced to protection point advisors who had which I think you'll appreciate this the systems and processes in place that all I needed to do was plug in and connect the two, and that's what I've been doing for the last five years, you did more than connect you started, you built onto it. Thank you, I did.

Mike Clark: 13:26

I did Because there's a lot of things that I didn't know, and so I sat back one day and I'm like if I don't know this stuff, then most of the clients don't know it, right? So then how do I how do I like really and I always use the term exploit how do I exploit our partners pull the information out of their head so I can learn, and then the byproduct is that everybody else can learn. So that's when I started this whole interview process and just interviewed these professionals every week on simple things like what should you be asking your CPA? What should you be asking your estate planning attorney? What does that mean?

Mike Clark: 14:06

don't like stop talking in legal jargon yes tell me what that means, right, and then from that now is exploding into the whole educational platform that we're building and it is so important.

Tonya J. Long: 14:19

People that you would work with are generally educated, resourceful, sophisticated people, but we also have ego and we don't want to raise our hand and say what does that mean? But what we know about the financial world and how things work is remarkably low. So we're putting ourselves at risk when we don't know and our entire I can't even say retirement anymore because it's not for retirement, but our future. We're making decisions about our future without having any idea how it works and when we go to our professionals who help us and they go check with him, ask her do this.

Tonya J. Long: 14:58

It's almost akin to like when you have a chronic disease and you're trying to get treated or even diagnosed in the medical system and you have to see so many people and people just give up. And I think on the finance side we just give up because we don't like being dumb and we don't like being given the runaround. But this silo problem that exists where go check with the CPA, ask the attorney. What do you think helped you pull all those people together? Because those people historically haven't really partnered and you've helped them to partner.

Mike Clark: 15:34

Right, and so it started when I was in my undergrad. I mean, honestly, I had a track athlete. The coach was this a long time ago, right, I was working with the track team and the coach was this world renowned Olympian coach and his thing was I do not want trainers on the track. They cause injuries. Like he just thought that people a hamstring.

Mike Clark: 16:04

He was on the four by 100 relay, packed 12 or at the time it was packed in, championships were coming and I had to go tell the coach that his finishing leg was out and I just, this is who I am, this is the athlete, this is what I'm doing, this is the timeline. And he looked at me, great, and he closed the door in my face and I was like, oh so I survived. And then when I got into the OR working for Johnson Johnson selling medical device is, I wasn't a doctor, but if I told them to stop, the whole room stopped. So it started to build the confidence in that if I could tell a doctor with no medical degree to stop and he listens to me then I can tell a CPA come on. Is that really the answer? Like, stop, because the psychology behind it, tanya, is that we were raised to share, but we were raised not to cheat, not to work off Johnny's paper. Don't talk to strangers, don't do all of these things to collaborate, because it was against the rules. Talk to a stranger, collaborate and try to build trust in a short time frame when we've never really psychologically learned how to do that. And what I do is one teach professionals how to make an introduction of themselves, who are you and the value you create. And the second thing is learn to edify the people that you're introducing clients, to have a conversation with the professional that you want to introduce a client to before you introduce a client.

Mike Clark: 17:58

Here's what happens. You and I are working together and you call me and say Mike, I've got a guy that needs X, y and Z, call him. So then what do I do? And this happens to everybody watching the show, doesn't matter what industry you're in. I call John. Hey, john, this is Mike. Tonya told me to call you. Give me a call. Hey, john, Mike, you know, this is Mike. Again, tanya told me to call you. And then what happens is is the law of diminishing intent. Intent, john has a family, john has kids, john has work. And next thing, you know Mike, who's Mike and why is he calling me, and then it never goes anywhere he's not my priority he's not my priority.

Mike Clark: 18:42

And then then eventually you run into John hey, by the way, did you talk to Mike? Who's Mike? Now you're upset because the perception is, I didn't call John and I called him 16 times, right? So we have this perception loop, and so what I do is I eliminate that loop. I talk to a client and in that meeting I schedule time with the professional that I need to talk to. So that way it's on the calendar, on their calendar, on the client's calendar. Then I call that professional and say Tonya, you and I are going to meet with John and Sally. This is what they want, this is their desire, this is their goals. Perfect. I jump on the call. John and Sally, this is Tonya. This is what I told Tonya that you're looking for. Is that correct, yes or no? Perfect, I will let you guys do your thing.

Tonya J. Long: 19:31

If you need me call me.

Mike Clark: 19:32

Click. It's 60 seconds, and if we can do that as professionals, then we have better conversations, and if we have better conversations, we have better outcomes. It's not hard, it's just we have to get out of our own way.

Tonya J. Long: 19:50

That's it. I love it Because, as I hear you talking about that and I have experienced that with you I think it's not just what you do, it's not just in the finance, cpa, attorney kind of realm. I think more and more of us are required to network to be successful.

Tonya J. Long: 20:09

We're looking for unicorns this coming year, billion-dollar valuations with one person in the company. But rest assured, they did not do all the work. They partnered like crazy to collaborate to build a million-dollar company. And I think we all should listen to what you just said, because it may be obvious to us that it's not an industry practice, but it should be every industry's practice. It's just, it's good.

Mike Clark: 20:36

Every industry.

Tonya J. Long: 20:38

The people that I put my name behind, helping them get to somebody, want that to mean something. I want that to work out. I can invest that extra 60 seconds to get on the call to make that handoff and everybody wins. All three parties win by that extra piece of care that I absolutely had time to to to take care of. I just I'm grateful that's your model and that you can share it so cleanly. Well, I appreciate that, as we all have.

Mike Clark: 21:08

And that's the thing, though. You do a great job in articulating what you want, and a lot of professionals don't, and that's where it starts Like what is my unique value proposition? How do I fit into the market and then clearly articulate that to somebody, and not in a salesy way, but it's, this is who I am, this is like what I'm looking for, and I would love to collaborate if that's possible. But so many professionals come into the collaboration hat in hand. Right, it is. And a great example I don't do networking events anymore because when somebody asks me so, Mike, what do you do? Great, I build digital family offices to help businesses gain clarity and optimize their business. What does that mean? Well, I help them from anything from raising capital to exit planning, and the first thing out of their mouth is typically I'm looking to raise capital. But you really didn't hear what I just said.

Tonya J. Long: 22:10

Yeah, no not at all, not at all. They heard capital and it boom. Yeah, I know, that's it, I do know, right, yeah.

Mike Clark: 22:16

And I'm like, okay, good talk.

Tonya J. Long: 22:19

Yeah, yeah, I get it, but it's intentionality and it's having some I don't know pride is not the right word. It's having some pride in finishing what you started so that all three parties can win.

Mike Clark: 22:32

Right.

Tonya J. Long: 22:32

Yeah.

Mike Clark: 22:36

So pivoting again.

Tonya J. Long: 22:37

Yes, let's go personal just a little bit.

Mike Clark: 22:39

Yeah, yeah.

Tonya J. Long: 22:41

I think you're fascinating because you're a granddad which to me, what do they call?

Mike Clark: 22:46

you Five times, Five times over. What do they call you Grandpa, Actually? No, no, no. They can't pronounce the G, so it's usually cramp grandpa. Grandpa With a K.

Tonya J. Long: 22:56

How old's the oldest?

Mike Clark: 22:58

Seven, seven now, wow.

Tonya J. Long: 23:00

So I think it's fascinating because, number one, you just don't appear to be ready to have grandchildren. It's a statement and you skip the kid part. I did so. You married into a relationship that then produced grandchildren. So for you to have grandkids and I've met a couple of them online I remember that day, my cousin, we talked way too long and they were done waiting at the door, so that was fun.

Tonya J. Long: 23:28

But that part of your life, I think, is unique and I wonder if that has shaped how you see clients now, because prior to that you didn't have kids at all, and I'm sure that a lot of your clients are coming into the age where they're planning for college tuitions, they're trying to make everything work, and when you have children it puts a whole new dimension into what you have to consider. So how has being grandpa did I say it right Grandpa?

Mike Clark: 23:56

How has being? Grandpa changed how you look at servicing people and grandpa changed how you look at servicing people, so tanya that they say, and I say they right.

Tonya J. Long: 24:10

They say when you have kids, things change yeah, right, because you do love, obviously you do, oh my gosh.

Mike Clark: 24:13

And so when piper, the first one, was born, I told my wife that something snapped in my brain and it was for me. Now I've got to create this legacy for her and all of the ones that follow. And so how do I do that in a way that serves everyone? Right, because I can't go into it just. I need to create legacy for my grandkids. Right, because I have the skills and the knowledge to do that.

Tonya J. Long: 24:45

And you're talking generational wealth, kind of legacy.

Mike Clark: 24:47

Generational wealth.

Tonya J. Long: 24:48

Yeah.

Mike Clark: 24:49

Right, how do I set them up? Because and on a side note everybody talks about generational wealth in terms of a dollar amount. I consider it not just dollar amount but the education and the skills set for them to make better decisions with money Right, which is a different part of this conversation. But what it really did for me in working with clients is that now I've got these little guys and gals floating around the house, how do I protect them and how do I learn as much as possible to do that, which is the other part of those interviews that I did and then the natural byproduct of that is how do I share that information for others to protect their legacy, whatever that may be?

Mike Clark: 25:37

But it's understanding their journey, which is different from everybody, and I think that's one of the failing parts of the financial services industry is they put too many people in these little boxes that they don't understand and, at the end of the day, your journey is different than my journey, and even my wife sitting across the house, her journey is different than my journey. There is an intersect with our journeys, yeah, but even married, living in the same house with the same grandkids, every journey is different, and being able to identify that. That was the one thing that snapped in my head when Piper was born is how do I create more value? And that's where it started. Started and just falling in love with the process of really without being saying like a cliche or whatever learning as much as possible on every level. I wish I could plug in like the Matrix.

Tonya J. Long: 26:35

And soon, soon, but we're not going to go there. This is not that show, Right? But what I heard you say, what I read into what you said, it was no longer just about the dollars. It's not about saving up enough to pay for each child's college education.

Tonya J. Long: 26:58

It wasn't transactional at all Because I very much heard you talk about I'll use the word platform but you creating a platform where you can feed off to them how they can learn and make wise choices and have agency for themselves. And you need to build that so that you can be a steward of how their lives go, even financially but that and tanya that's, and I appreciate that because that's how wealth is made like.

Mike Clark: 27:33

there's a principle that I follow that it's exchange creates wealth and at first glance, when you read that, everybody tends to go to the dollar. But the other day Piper and I were here, Christy my wife went off and did something and I went downstairs and I said, Piper, I want to do a little experiment with you. Come on, let's go upstairs.

Tonya J. Long: 27:51

You would be such a front-run dad.

Mike Clark: 27:54

And so, listen, I said, piper, I'm going to blow your mind. And we sat here at this desk and I opened up chat with the mid-journey GPT. And I opened up mid-journey and I was like Piper, I'm going to take, and I put my hands on her head. I said I'm going to pull an image out of your head and I'm going to throw it onto the computer screen. And she's like what? And I said so, tell me what you want to create. And she goes I want to create a leopard with a baby leopard in a forest, with a deer behind it. And Tonya, she looked at the screen. She's like what. She was blown away.

Mike Clark: 28:31

I love it and like, tell me another one, I want a princess and a tout right. So we went down this process of creating things like from her mind right. And that, tanya, is the exchange creates the wealth because if I can start implanting in her asking different questions, then it sets her up to ask better questions of her cps, of her attorney, of her boss, and so better questions equal better results. That's it and that is where the exchange comes in. I don't care if I leave them a million, although I will, or more. I want them to ask questions and not be afraid of asking questions.

Tonya J. Long: 29:18

You're training them on curiosity questions. You're training them on curiosity To be curious people and to seek what they need and engage others in it, which is all about who you are.

Mike Clark: 29:31

I love it. I love it and it's the process. I love the process, I love it.

Tonya J. Long: 29:35

Good, I'm going to do a quick station ID here at the bottom of the hour so you are listening to. Are you ready? Kpcr LP 92.9 FM in Los Gatos. Kmrt LP 101.9 FM out of Santa Cruz Lovely day to catch some waves. And our new little itty bitty baby, we have a new radio station just in the last month KVBELP 91.1 FM in Portland portland, yeah, that, portland. Oh, congratulations how about that isn't that cool that is about people growing and doing new things.

Tonya J. Long: 30:08

We have a station out of I think it's on the western side of portland yeah, very excited. So back to this five grandchildren piper's the oldest, what we teach them. That's one of the things that makes you unique, because you now get to have that perspective of seeing a different lens in life by wanting to create legacy. Another lens that I think you have is you lived in the Bay Area for a bit. I did, and you understand me. You get me and you understand me. You get me here in the Bay Area, all this innovation around us and all this hyper busyness that we have, but you live in Utah, which is, I feel, like a very more family centered environment. So what has living between those two and, I think, probably be remarkably different communities in terms of behavior and prioritization?

Mike Clark: 31:04

What has that? They couldn't have been farther. I mean so. First I grew up in Modesto and then lived out in the Bay Area when I worked for Johnson Johnson. My wife and I could not be more opposite. It's. I watched everything as a kid. She didn't watch anything with an R in it. Right, I listened to NWA. She didn't know what NWA was. So it couldn't be farther from the truth. And, to be honest with you, tanya, when I first moved here, the plan wasn't to stay.

Tonya J. Long: 31:35

And so you've been there 10 years, haven't you?

Mike Clark: 31:38

It says 2007, almost 20.

Mike Clark: 31:39

Oh my goodness, okay, yeah, put things in front of me my wife that I could not ignore. Yeah, and it was an interesting process that at the time the ego kind of got in the way and I tried to deny it, but that's why that's how I stayed here. But ultimately you're right, there is a stark difference between California as a whole, but specifically Northern California and Utah. It's definitely slower. It's picking up because more California is moving here, but there is a huge difference in everything about Utah compared to California.

Tonya J. Long: 32:35

Yeah, I love it. I love it. So what do you have to spend the most time working, actively working on, when you have to shift gears and work with a high profile, maniacal, fast paced innovator who thinks everything should be snap, compared to the life you're in, where the girls come sit on your knee while you're finishing your call with me, it only happened once and we had tested the boundaries of their patience levels. So what do you have to exercise when you come up against someone who is very immediate, because finances are a long game? Play Right, right.

Mike Clark: 33:20

Really, because finances are a long game play Right, right, right, really. So this is going to sound a little off track.

Tonya J. Long: 33:27

It'll be fun.

Mike Clark: 33:28

But I so with kinesiology, obviously I have a skill set for working out and so I to your point, tanya I train with speed. So everything is timed at the gym. There is no walking around, there's very little talking. I mean, my wife teased me because I chew gum, because it keeps me on tempo and pace. So that's the first thing. So I train with intention to keep the speed up. The other thing that I do throughout the day is I listen to music, but I don't listen to music with words. I listen to electric music like house music that has a tick, tick, tick, tick, like the metronome.

Mike Clark: 34:14

So, without just having it tick, tick, tick and be annoying, the music itself is tick, tick, tick tick. Boots and pants, and boots, and pants, and boots and pants, and it keeps me mentally on that pace and so can I slow it down. It takes me a little bit after everything's said and done to slow it down, but that's how I maintain that California pace in the mountain lifestyle of Utah.

Tonya J. Long: 34:40

Okay, I love it. I love that you live in Utah and you're introducing your granddaughters to mid-journey. They think it's magic. They don't understand it's mid-journey yet, they just think it's magic. Oh my God, granddad pulled it out of my brain.

Mike Clark: 34:57

That's it. That's it, just plugged it in.

Tonya J. Long: 34:59

But what about your background in technology? And I don't know that you've ever held a pure technology role, but you are. You would be a fantastic product leader because you are always ideating how to make things better. That's just how you're wired.

Mike Clark: 35:14

Yeah.

Tonya J. Long: 35:15

And you have a real knack for technology. So so I'll just say that your background in technology, or your capabilities there are, have helped you build a better practice as you've moved from a more corporate level of financing to the individual level where. I think, frankly, the vertical was just so ripe for innovation.

Mike Clark: 35:39

Yeah, yeah.

Tonya J. Long: 35:39

Right. So how did technology like? Because I think it also feeds you. It doesn't just do good work for your clients, you really enjoy it. You enjoy the tick, tick tick tick, tick build.

Mike Clark: 35:53

I love it. I love it quickly, and so that happened. I didn't know anybody when I moved to utah really okay there, for a woman had created right, yeah, yeah, right. But when I first moved here, the guys that I moved here by buddies, they all moved away, and so I'm here. I didn't know anybody, and I bought a package from Mike Dillard, an internet marketer, how to build a WordPress document, and this was in 2009.

Mike Clark: 36:19

Yeah, Right, and it was the whole backend funnel email system and I bought it for like 150 bucks and it was off of some like midnight infomercial and for the next three months. I would call GoDaddy and I would ask them what's an SQL database? How do I connect that?

Tonya J. Long: 36:36

GoDaddy would answer those questions back then.

Mike Clark: 36:39

GoDaddy, oh, yeah, yeah, wow, they would Matter of fact, I called so many times one night. Hey, Mike, what question do you have?

Mike Clark: 36:47

And so from there, I built seven different WordPress documents, repeating like I just reverse engineered it okay and so from there it was how, like if this is possible, like what else is possible, and then it's just been keeping up on different systems and processes that I can utilize and exploit, if you. And then understanding that things are constantly going to change, and then just understanding that we live in a world of absolute abundance. And where can I go in that pool of abundance and find what I need? Now my problem is I go down rabbit holes and I find so many tools that I can't use them all, all bright, shiny objects Me too.

Mike Clark: 37:33

All of them bright, shiny objects. And then I've got to go back to one thing that you know, going through Anthony Robbins a long, long time ago, was that find two or three guys or gals and stick to what they do. And so I've got to remind myself that you know what are like what's Gary Vee doing in terms of social media? What's Harmozy doing in terms of building funnels? And so I just stick to two or three guys that are doing using technology to the best of their abilities. And how do I reverse engineer it for me?

Tonya J. Long: 38:07

Can we talk about abundance?

Mike Clark: 38:10

I'd love to.

Tonya J. Long: 38:13

I think you have to see a lot of fear in your role in working with clients. The future is. There's a lot of uncertainty and I think the future, if the future is a being, we'll just go there.

Tonya J. Long: 38:27

If the future is a being the being is asking us to have some faith in what's going to come, but there's so much uncertainty. The future is just expecting us to know things will work out and I think you've got to have a lot of faith for the abundance mindset to be authentic. And a lot of people are scared because they don't. They can't really clearly see the horizon with all that's happening with AI, with their geopolitical stuff. There's half a dozen reasons that the future is not as clear as it was 15 years ago. How do you help clients find abundance? Because I think most people say they want to engage that way with the world, but then they're worried about their husband losing his job, they're worried about whether or not the stock market's going to fall. They're worried about any number of things. How do you be that for other people, to show them to have faith?

Mike Clark: 39:30

So the interesting thing, tanya, that you said that there is a lot of uncertainty today, but there is a lot of uncertainty in 2020. There is a lot of uncertainty in 2016. There is a lot of uncertainty in 2012. There's always a lot of uncertainty Always, and so most individuals that I work with are in a far better position than they think they are, and so one of the things that we focus on as a firm is the financial plan, and I'll pick on the financial services industry again. Most financial professionals focus on product first, then the plan right, and there's reasons for that. We'll go into that, because it picks on them too much, but they're product-based, they're transactional-based. Where one of the reasons why I cringe when you said financial planner is I never wanted to be a financial planner.

Tonya J. Long: 40:34

I know You're not that.

Mike Clark: 40:35

I think it's a horrible term, but one of the reasons why I picked the firm that I picked and I was two weeks away from letting my licenses expire. That's how I did not want to be a financial advisor or a planner, but one of the things that we do as a firm is we put together a cashflow statement.

Tonya J. Long: 40:54

A what statement? Say it again.

Mike Clark: 40:57

A cashflow statement. Thank you, right. So, coming from business and my MBA and all these things, I was like, oh well, that's awesome. So let's build a financial plan, a cashflow statement inflows, outflows, expenses, all of these things and then from that plan, let's identify where you're at. If you did nothing else, how long would your money last? Let's have a baseline and then in that baseline, where are the gaps? Long-term care, life insurance, all of the tools, right, and, by the way, most financial advisors cannot talk about all of the tools because of a little thing called selling away. You guys can look it up, google it selling away. It's a bad thing. I'm in a position that I can talk about everything because of the way our firm is set up. So we build a financial plan first and then fill the gaps later.

Mike Clark: 41:58

So long-winded answer to your question. We build certainty, tanya, by first letting people know that most oftentimes they're in a far better position than they think they are. But they've never seen the numbers and most financial plans are done in a far better position than they think they are. But they've never seen the numbers and most financial plans are done in a vacuum, while the advisor is speaking down their nose to them Like just give me more money over time at an average rate of return and don't worry about it. And then they leave and they're like I don't even know what that plan says, whereas we lay it all out and we don't charge for it, I remember. So it's literally just information. And then from that information, now you, the client, have a choice. Do I execute on the data that I have or do I not? And that's your choice. But at least now you have the information to make an educated decision. And with that, that's how we create that certainty in a very uncertain time. That's how we create that roadmap and so far the data is pretty good.

Tonya J. Long: 43:10

There's some integrity in that.

Mike Clark: 43:13

I think so.

Tonya J. Long: 43:14

In my process with you a few years ago, I learned a lot about. I thought I knew a lot about my finances Of course we all do and then when you go through an evaluation, like building out that plan takes, it's an investment of time, it's a commitment of mindset, and all that is just to make sure the relationship is right. It's to get me on track, but it's also an opportunity for you, as somebody I partner with, to make sure that there's the right communication style for us to work well together.

Mike Clark: 43:47

And resources come to bear and all those things Right. And there are times, tanya, that I've gone off the rails in our conversations and got off all kinds of jargon and this is the thing that I love about our conversations and the clients that I work with is okay, I didn't need all that 't, I didn't need the weeds. Just tell me what's going on, right. And there's a lot of times that uncertainty comes from. I don't want to be an authoritative individual, but I want to control all the conversations. I understand there's noise and there's everything in the market and I certainly am not an economist. I don't know everything, but the idea is to be that source, that conduit to people that know that information. And if you have the trust, just to ask the question. And, as they say, there's no dumb question, just ask the question, then I will find the answer.

Mike Clark: 44:54

And, going back to selling away, there's a lot of people that can't answer those questions, and so this is where the importance of like, even as a business owner, tanya, I've talked to business owners, like I've worked in my CPA for 20 years. Why I don't know, okay, well, what are they doing for? Why I don't know, okay, well, what are they doing for you? I don't know. Well, what's your advisor done for you? I don't know, like, why are we not challenging these professionals that we're working with, not to just challenge them to? You know, to be butt heads or anything. But I learned from our co-founders my job doesn't start until the client signs the agreement and then, from that point forward, my job is to keep my job, and every day. How do I create value? How do I answer questions?

Tonya J. Long: 45:42

How can I be there in every capacity of the way, and that is the team behind me that allows me to do that I think you probably landed on something remarkable for your industry that you get to do, because you and I have personally talked through so many different scenarios and you're my business partner. You're not just the guy who looks at my budgets and tells me where my performance is on my stocks, you're the one saying you know that thing, you could do this thing to make that thing happen.

Tonya J. Long: 46:14

And you're my business partner and it's it that has to be fun for you, because you're not just relegated to the transactional stocks have been down and we're moving things into bonds and we don't we, you and I don't even have the conversations.

Mike Clark: 46:29

No, no, no, Our conversations like and this and to your point, yes, tanya, it very much is better. Like I had a client the other day you and I spoke a little bit about that before the show was asking about what I do in terms of my accounts and how I trade options and things like that. But they're like, okay, well, you know, how do we kind of meet in the middle and and next thing, you know, I'm running through 13 positions on dividends that pay monthly and I'm like now we're getting somewhere. Like I don't. I do care about the portfolios and the models and the traditional stuff, but I have the ability, which you and I've talked about, to talk about self-directed and how to utilize self-directed. Big fan of self-directed.

Tonya J. Long: 47:10

Huge Look it up, call me. I'll tell you all about it.

Mike Clark: 47:14

One of the most underutilized financial tools in our wheelhouse and no advisor very few of them talk about it because they can't. Yeah, and so that's. I mean the portfolios, that's great. I mean the portfolios, that's great. But when you call me and say, hey, what is about this transaction, or can I do private equity? Yes, and, matter of fact, the call I have today after this, tanya, a client has a business relationship in Australia and he calls me and goes I'm going to close my 401k or my IRA and I want to put that money into that. I'm okay with penalties and taxation.

Mike Clark: 47:54

And my email was that, hey, let's discuss how the business is structured and, if your name is on the business, to avoid self-dealing because we might be able to move that money into the business without paying penalties and paying taxes. And he's like no way, all kinds of exclamation marks, let's schedule time. That is the funds. That part I love. Like, let's do some technical analysis. If you have an equity position. Hey, I heard this on the news. Great, let's put it on Yahoo Finance. Let's draw some lines and let's see if it's legit. Let's put it on Yahoo Finance, let's draw some lines and let's see if it's legit. That is where the fun's at. I love it.

Tonya J. Long: 48:36

Now we're getting all excited. We could do a whole show on opening up people to thinking about different ways to treat their money.

Tonya J. Long: 48:44

It bothers me that I know how I can use self-directed IRAs and other people will say to me oh, I don't have money to participate in that, I don't have money liquid. And I'm like what do you mean? I don't have money liquid. You're 45 years old and you've been in corporate America the whole time, so of course you've had a 401k, so of course you've got money sitting there and you have money that's liquid. I think people sometimes are just too passive, For whatever reason. It's like this conversation we've been having here. People don't ask the questions they should. They think they're locked in and they don't want to ask. And I don't understand.

Mike Clark: 49:21

There are billions of dollars every year that are left in previous employers' 401k accounts I mean one. It's a disservice for human resources to even allow that to happen. Billions of dollars in 401k plan money that the employees no longer work for the companies. That's just absurd. It's ridiculous.

Tonya J. Long: 49:44

Yeah, so I think if I want people to take anything away from our conversation, it's that they are a lot more empowered than they probably realize and they need to be having conversations with the people who shepherd them in this part of the journey, to ask the questions, so that those shepherds have an opportunity to provide some of that wisdom about the options that you have. It's not just a passive thing. It's not just to throw it all in a 401k-based IRA and let it sit for 30 years. That's just no fun and it's a disservice to what your potential is.

Mike Clark: 50:23

It's a huge disservice and that is the old way of thinking, and we're just in a new era yeah. And way more tools, way more information that you can make better decisions.

Tonya J. Long: 50:34

Perfect. I want to move to the lightning round Because, instead of going deep and I didn't ask you about crypto I wanted to ask you about crypto Because I'm not invested in any crypto, just as a statement. I think it's a really interesting discussion. You're either all in on crypto. Here I'm discussing it. You're either all in or you're terrified of it. There's no in between.

Mike Clark: 50:57

I'm in between.

Tonya J. Long: 50:58

Yeah.

Mike Clark: 50:58

I am all in on the blockchain.

Tonya J. Long: 51:00

That's different. I am not in on the currency.

Mike Clark: 51:04

A lot of people don't understand that.

Tonya J. Long: 51:06

They just haven't studied enough yet to see that. But oh yeah, we don't have a choice but to be all in on blockchain.

Mike Clark: 51:12

Right and I think it needs to be implemented.

Tonya J. Long: 51:14

Like yesterday, I'm like stopping my mouth because I'm about to go. We have no choice. Instead, let's do the lightning round. What's the best. Lightning round Fast responses. Maybe they weren't more, but what's the best piece of financial advice you've ever received?

Mike Clark: 51:35

the best piece of financial advice you've ever received. Ever received um who have I?

Tonya J. Long: 51:37

ever build teams would probably be the the biggest financial advice. How interesting because I built is build a team that's not the answer I expected, because I was in the old paradigm and the new paradigm is build teams. What's your favorite tech gadget or app right now?

Mike Clark: 51:54

Right now. Right now, n8n, the agentic AI. What did you say N8N?

Tonya J. Long: 52:05

So, nancy, the number eight, nancy, All right, you just one-upped me because I haven't played with that at all.

Mike Clark: 52:18

Okay, I just opened an account. I bought this crazy online 3000 workflow agents.

Tonya J. Long: 52:20

I'm going to reverse engineer the crap out of it in a few weeks. Okay, awesome, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, I literally just did that yesterday okay yeah, because you and I are always playing with something and then sharing it, so I love it. It N-8N. If I think of it, I'll put that in the show notes. If you could master one new skill instantly you didn't have to like work at it, you could just master that skill what would you do?

Mike Clark: 52:45

The skill that I'm learning, that I would like to learn faster, is educational, instructional design, the psychology behind structuring education content.

Tonya J. Long: 52:56

Yeah, because that's where you're moving yourself into, I think, is a shepherd of many. Right, you have a limited number I was about to call you like a therapist, but there is some of that too but you have a limited number of clients that you probably shouldn't reasonably maintain. But with education you can take what you learn with that finite set and cast it out much wider, and I think that's very exciting for you.

Mike Clark: 53:25

And most individuals. I was on a CE course for CPAs. Today, what I'm learning going through my process is most individuals don't understand instructional design.

Tonya J. Long: 53:36

Oh yeah, Because it's a skill.

Mike Clark: 53:39

It is a skill, yeah, yeah, and it's for me, coming from the medical industry and the black and white of finance. It is a skill that it's a challenge for me to learn, but it's something that I need. That's what I. If I could plug into the matrix and download that, that's what I would download, okay.

Tonya J. Long: 54:00

Okay, then I'll let Neo know what's like the most common financial mistake that you see people making.

Mike Clark: 54:10

Not understanding the cost of debt, the cost of interest, the biggest thing.

Tonya J. Long: 54:17

Yeah, okay, next.

Mike Clark: 54:22

Yeah, yeah, and honestly, that's in the younger generations. Matter of fact, I just saw it on the news the other day that like 80 or no 40 percent of kids in their 20s feel that their friends with money influence their spending habits, but they just don't understand how detrimental that cost of interest is.

Tonya J. Long: 54:43

I understand what you're saying, but I also, just as a side note to that, one of the most important things that that I've learned in my time with you and I got connected through an organization that we're both in, and in that organization we learn a lot about spending other people's money to make money, and so for me, not all debt is bad, because if I get incurred debt at four or 5% because I can turn around and use my money for different kinds of investments that are pulling 12 or 14, then that's good debt for me to incur.

Mike Clark: 55:17

Perfect, okay, real quick. So this is the Dave Ramsey thing.

Tonya J. Long: 55:22

Dave Ramsey's from Tennessee. Right, right, right, so the reason why Dave Ramsey teaches yeah, go ahead.

Mike Clark: 55:29

He teaches that because the masses don't understand that principle, and so the reason that I gave that answer understanding the cost of debt is that if somebody understood how to manage their relationship with money, then they can learn how to utilize debt in a proper way. But that's why Dave Ramsey teaches what he teaches, because most people vast majority don't even understand the concept of the cost of interest. So what Dave Ramsey says is just eliminate it. Well, that's not true, you need to understand the cost.

Tonya J. Long: 56:12

And the easiest example for me to give to hit this audience broadly is I used to buy a car and buy it outright. Every time I've been very fortunate financially. And I used to buy a car just to buy the car, because I didn't want a car payment. There was something like wrong about a car payment. But when you can get your car loan at 1.9%, why would I spend my money? If my car loan is 1.9%, I'd rather have a car loan and then use that set of monies to do something that has a 5x advantage Right With that same money. So I don't mind carrying a car loan anymore because I know that my money is being spent doing more important work.

Mike Clark: 56:57

Yeah, how do you, how do you utilize the same dollar twice?

Tonya J. Long: 57:01

Yeah, absolutely Cool. So I almost always ask people what is a piece of advice that you would give a younger Mike Clark?

Mike Clark: 57:14

I just talked about this the other day, do you?

Tonya J. Long: 57:16

What did you say?

Mike Clark: 57:17

With my college buddy is the one advice that I would give my younger self is to be more intentional with your time. As a younger me, if I would have the discipline that I have now. Back then dang, I mean I won awards, I did some great things back in the day, but, holy cow, I could have done so much more if I would have had the same discipline and the willingness to learn as I do now.

Tonya J. Long: 57:50

Yeah, being intentional Changes everything I do now. Yeah, being intentional.

Mike Clark: 57:53

Changes everything. I love it.

Tonya J. Long: 57:54

Yeah, I love it. Last question on the lightning round what gives you hope about the future of finance and families, given where you are?

Mike Clark: 58:08

The family itself. Tonya, like the grandkids, the grandkids really did shift everything for me and there's so much opportunity for me now and giving them the learning it for me, but then learning it for, to teach them right, cause so many many parents and I don't mean to pick on parents, because everything's- got.

Tonya J. Long: 58:33

They've got so many things going on.

Mike Clark: 58:38

But that show are you smarter than a fifth grader? I want to be that. I want to be that resource for them that they come to me like. I want to do a science fair project. I want to be on the science team. I want, like great you, what We'll learn it. Let's go and have that. That's what gives me hope is giving them the power to do whatever they truly do, whatever they want to do.

Tonya J. Long: 59:05

I love it. So if people listen today and there was something that struck them and they want to follow you, they want to, they want to in some way understand more from you. Where do you direct people who want to learn more about your work?

Mike Clark: 59:22

I'm on one platform, or one platform only, that's linkedin.

Tonya J. Long: 59:26

I'm sorry, I'm not going to start.

Mike Clark: 59:28

Yes, of course we are, but I don't I don't, I don't do, I don't do snappy chat, I don't do ticky talk Um the articles, the interviews I am very intentional with.

Tonya J. Long: 59:40

LinkedIn, and we didn't really I mean the first, the first 35 million I raised was from LinkedIn alone. See, I give LinkedIn a hard time because it keeps messing with the algorithm, but it still is has been a remarkable tool for building networks and building business transaction value, and it's, and it still is. They mess with the algorithm, but I think there's still a tremendous amount that we do on LinkedIn and people who are interested in you. You have you've done. How many podcasts have you done?

Mike Clark: 1:00:14

A hundred and nine. A hundred a hundred and nineteen.

Tonya J. Long: 1:00:17

So anybody just like wanting to be better at understanding how their finances work. There's a hundred and nineteen nuggets of value out there with Mike's name on it. That's free right. That's a hundred percent that that you can go and learn and be interested, and we all have drive time and other times that we can optimize that time. I tick, tock, tock, tock, tock.

Mike Clark: 1:00:39

The metronome Get the metronome out Right.

Tonya J. Long: 1:00:41

We can all optimize that time. So you have done a tremendous service. You've been on this journey a while. This educate more people. It's starting to. With the current technology opportunities that we're having, I think it's easier for you to take command of building something much bigger from an educational standpoint. But you've been on this path for a long time. With that podcast, yeah.

Mike Clark: 1:01:05

Right, and that's, and, tonya, that's the thing with the technology is that you know you talked about, you know fear and everybody. Ai is going to take jobs. Well, you know what? The car took away horse and buggy jobs. Everything takes away jobs, everything since we had industry right. But what I embrace, and what a lot of people should embrace, is that, for me, I'm not a creative. I've never been a creative and I watched a masterclass on this and what struck me was AI will give the creatives more power, but it'll give those that are not creative creativity yeah, we never had access to yeah.

Mike Clark: 1:01:48

Right, and so for me I can put in the intellectual properties of it into AI and tell it to give. Don't be intellectual, Put it in this, this and this tone, and it spits out the intellectual side into something that's actually palatable for anybody else. And that's what I embrace and what I love about moving forward and anybody can do it. That's the beauty of it. Beautifully said. I love it. I'll about moving forward and anybody can do it. That's the beauty of it. Beautifully said.

Tonya J. Long: 1:02:14

I'll put your connection points in the show notes, so that people can see what you do, can learn from what you do and can engage with you if they'd like.

Mike Clark: 1:02:24

So yeah, and this is the thing. Tonya is that if anybody connects with me on LinkedIn and there is a person or place that they need an introduction to, then please just ask for it. Don't sit around waiting for somebody to do something for you. As they say, you are the captain of your ship. If you need an introduction, reach out and ask. I will make the introduction.

Tonya J. Long: 1:02:50

Thank you. I might queue up three or four myself for you to make, so good Love it Excellent, let's do it.

Tonya J. Long: 1:02:58

So, everyone, this has been another wonderful day and an amazing conversation on RESET with Tonya, with Mike Clark, protection Point Advisors and just the best bridge builder I know, because you're building bridges between technology, between finance which is an intensely personal conversation and between the trajectory that humans have into living, into their ambitions for the future, whatever that looks like. So it's been wonderful to talk with you everyone. So you are listening to KPCR LP 92.9 FM in Los Gatos, kmrt LP 101.9 FM out of Santa Cruz and our new little itty bitty baby, kvbelp 91.1 FM in Portland. Thank you, have a wonderful day. Oh, and Mike we do this.

Tonya J. Long: 1:03:48

We do this hard thing again. So do the hard thing. Thank you, you were so much fun. Thank you everyone. This has been RESET with Tonya Mike Clark. Have an awesome day. Bye.