Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello everyone and welcome to NorCal Narratives, where today we're going to talk with someone who has echoed loudly across decades of punk stages and underground clubs and I am. I am personally just really excited to be in this conversation, because our guest, blog Dahlia, is the unapologetic front man of a band called the Dwarves, and you can see, if you're looking at Blog, that he's not a young kid anymore and yet he is still making a living on the road. Took us about a month to get this lined up and because he's been on the road and I just think that's amazing I don't have the strength to be on the road anymore. So we're so happy and if you've not heard of Blog, if you've not heard of the Dwarves, then this is going to be your introduction and I think that we are going to have fun. So, blog, welcome to NorCal Narratives.

Speaker 2: 0:53

Hey, it's my pleasure to be here. You can call me Blag.

Speaker 1: 1:06

Blag.

Speaker 2: 1:07

It's kind of the more Illinois way of saying it. Yeah, is it I? Okay, so blag. Well, let's start there, just for a little grounding. It's, it's a silly name I'm. Yeah, I've had it for many years and yeah, it's you know. I think it started out somewhere in the midst of time we were. We were staying at a, at a kind of a crash pad, and it said, yeah, black jesus was spray painted on the wall and I said, ok, I'll, you know, I'll be Black Jesus, that'll be my, my, my punk rock name, you know. But nobody called me Black Jesus. So eventually, black Jesus. So eventually I just changed it to Blag.

Speaker 1: 1:37

It converted to Blag because and your name is Paul, yeah. Blag is far more interesting.

Speaker 2: 1:44

That's right, yeah, so I've been stuck with it for a long time. But, yeah, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1: 1:50

And it's a presence, but what we're going to see as we talk is it's just one of a few different personas you have. You really are a fascinatingly diverse human. So I can't wait to talk about it. So how do you, how do you describe the dwarves? Are those guys like underachievers on the height column or what? What's going on with that?

Speaker 2: 2:13

so yeah, the dwarves you know it was kind of a tribute to the 60s bands that we love. They had little names, like you know, the troggs and the seeds and this kind of stuff. Yep, we were the dwarves, you know and you know, started off in Illinois going to punk shows in Chicago in the early 1980s, and then we eventually made our own band. We did a lot of kind of 60s garage covers and rock and roll-illy kind of stuff when we were starting out, and then we started writing our own stuff and pretty soon the legendary dwarves came into being.

Speaker 1: 2:56

Oh funny, you call them legendary because they actually kind of are. I mean not being, as we discussed just before, we started recording. I'm not a punk follower and so this is fascinating for me to learn about, but you guys are. You are larger than life. So what crafted that narrative Like? Did you start this 30 years ago saying I'm going to be like a household name, or did it just start and take on a life of its own.

Speaker 2: 3:27

Yeah, I mean, you know, basically, it was like the time period we came up during was when, you know, the big thing was clubs. You know a? Band would come up through the clubs.

Speaker 1: 3:37

I hear they're still in existence.

Speaker 2: 3:39

Yeah, you know sort of.

Speaker 1: 3:41

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:41

You know it was kind of rock bands, punk bands, metal bands, pop bands, whatever it was. You kind of came up through that gauntlet, you know. So we came up and you know sort of got in a lot of trouble. You know, we got thrown out of a lot of clubs, we got in a lot of fights, we got in a lot of issues with with, you know, bands and other clubs, and so this kind of legendary thing came around us, because we were always getting thrown out of things and getting tossed out and after a while it kind of became a joke and people would say, you know, and we, we would say, well, we're the dwarves, we're rock legends, you know, like rock stars have a lot of money and big record deals and get played on the radio, but we're rock legends.

Speaker 2: 4:25

We just get thrown out of everything and everybody's scared of us, you know. So that was sort of the way, the way that it went. But we wound up, you know, touring through the through, you know from the mid-80s and you know and uh I was in college then see so, so you were coming around about the time the Violent Femmes were having their heyday.

Speaker 1: 4:48

That's the only punk band I have on my Apple Music.

Speaker 2: 4:53

Well, I love the Violent Femmes. I come from Illinois, they came from Milwaukee. So I got to see them before they were a household name and they made some great, great records. I was a big fan, yeah.

Speaker 1: 5:07

Yeah, Okay, I never saw them perform. They're still out there as well. So there must be something about the punk genre, the punk audiences, that just keeps people like on that stage, similar to the Rolling Stones. I mean, I don't think those guys are going to ever stop performing, so maybe it's generational. Maybe it's generational that these to the Rolling Stones.

Speaker 1: 5:24

I mean I don't think those guys are going to ever stop performing. So maybe it's generational. Maybe it's generational that these guys you know this group, this generation just keeps doing their music. So you built this larger than life character and you started it, I'm guessing, in your 20s. Yeah, is your life yours or is your life Blagg's, did I mean? Because at some point, when you become such a persona and you're known for bar fights, and at some point are you making your own choices, or or do you feel like your character made your?

Speaker 2: 5:57

choices. I mean choices, boy do. Does anybody make their own choices? I mean, oh, let's go, existential, your choices are so kind of circumscribed in life, you know, like you can't choose to be taller or choose to be smarter or choose to be better looking, you know. So we make the choices we can, you know. I mean, I just kind of everything. But making a great record or playing a great show always kind of felt like folly to me.

Speaker 2: 6:24

It didn't seem very important, you know, and I think there were other things I could have stressed more had I seen, but I was very tunnel vision in terms of my vision of the band and what I wanted to do. So you turn around one day and it's yeah, you know, it's 40 plus years after you started the thing and it's like whoa, this is crazy, you know, but people will still, they'll still pay to see us, they still enjoy it and you know we try and stay interesting, you know.

Speaker 2: 6:56

I think a lot of bands kind of stagnate where they started. You know we always tried to, you know, introduce new things, whether it was a new, you know we were sequencing drums or making samples real early, which a lot of other punk bands weren't doing.

Speaker 2: 7:13

You know, then when a lot of punk bands kind of got cleaner and more popped out, you know, we we tried to kind of evolve in different ways. You know we'd make an even more hardcore, nasty record, that we make an even more pop one with some kind of evolve in different ways. You know we'd make an even more hardcore, nasty record, then we'd make an even more pop one with some kind of pop producer, just trying to see how many different places we could go.

Speaker 1: 7:31

Yeah, and I love that you differentiated. I love that you didn't follow, because violent films they're a great dance band. You know they're happy and you know they're a great dance band. But your point is so right that you were not going to be what was popular, you were going to be what was differentiated. So that was a conscious choice, even when you were younger.

Speaker 2: 7:58

Yeah, I think so, and you know, pop music was in kind of a bad place when I was in high school. It was a lot of kind of British pop that was trying to be Motown and failing miserably.

Speaker 2: 8:08

It just didn't hold anything for me and my friends you know, whereas the punk scene it was kind of that last gasp of being left alone. You know the mainstream didn't want it. People weren't trying to get in there and really make them. They didn't really see where the profit could be made. I think now people see that there was money to be made there and there's merchandise and this and that, but at the time it was nobody was really paying too much attention to it so you could kind of sneak in under the radar.

Speaker 1: 8:44

But you saw the world. I mean you guys are big. I mean I feel like I'm having a fangirl moment, you know. But you, in looking at the research, you know you guys toured all through the US, all through Europe. You did these big punk festivals in the UK. I didn't find that you ever played Wembley but but you know it wouldn't surprise me if you got real close.

Speaker 2: 9:06

No Wembley, I think the biggest we did was Donington when they were doing the Oz Fest and that stuff. So yeah, we've gotten to play some big metal festivals and punk festivals there in Europe Leeds and Reading, and you know Puckle Pop and Hellfest and these various places. So yeah, I've gotten to play some huge spots, you know. In America. You know we do the Punk in the Park tour a lot or we do you know punk rock bowling you know. So it's been nice to watch the scene kind of coagulate in a big, big festival and you can go play that and more people become hip to you well, you said earlier, 40 years on the road.

Speaker 1: 9:51

So I'm thinking people may have changed a lot. I know I look at my friends kids who are in college. They don't look a actor behave at all like I think I did when I was in college.

Speaker 2: 10:02

So you're very young looking now and young acting now. For sure, yeah. But yeah, we were a little more anxious to be emancipated, I think.

Speaker 1: 10:13

I love it.

Speaker 2: 10:14

Generation X. You know, we were a little more. We, our parents, weren't quite as helicopter-y with our no.

Speaker 1: 10:24

I grew up on a farm in Tennessee so they'd turn me out of the house like cattle. They'd turn me out of the house at like 8 am and I'd be on my bike and visiting neighbors and doing all kinds of whatnot until dinner time. Supper, supper time. So, it was a different life than it is now. How does that show up in your audiences? Because you have to. You probably don't sit around and think about this, but you have to look back and see that today's audiences receive you differently, Not because your music's that different, but because people are different.

Speaker 1: 10:56

So what's the big differences you see from?

Speaker 2: 10:59

30, 40 years ago. You know, there's a few things. I mean, there's a certain amount of just nostalgia right which you never, you're not ready for. When you're a kid, it's like there's no nostalgia, you're the new thing, whatever's happening. So to have all these years later, people are like, oh, I'm nostalgic for this, I remember this. You know that that's one side of it, and even like parents teaching their kids about it and stuff like that, which is interesting.

Speaker 2: 11:28

But the dwarves, you know, since it's such a childish kind of band in a lot of ways and there's a lot of, you know, just sexual imagery, violent imagery and nihilistic imagery that it's. I think it's for young people and they sort of go through a phase with it and then it's over, you know. So, whereas my brain has remained in it for all this time, you know, for a lot of people it's like it's the kind of thing that really turns you on when you're 15, 16, you get in your early twenties and you're kind of like I don't know if I really like this anymore. I'm thinking about other things now. I want to get a real date, or I want to go to a dance club, or I want to do something, you know. So it's kind of it interfaces with people's mentality. It's like I don't give a f*** phase of their life, you know.

Speaker 2: 12:16

And then some people stay in that and most people kind of graduate, you know.

Speaker 1: 12:21

Yeah, yeah. I feel like people are more delicate and sensitive now than they were in the 80s and 90s. Not that we were like crazy mean, but we were. I think we were tougher, so have had that impact we were mean in person you know they've learned a different way of being mean.

Speaker 2: 12:41

They're like cool to each other through the internet.

Speaker 2: 12:45

So, yes, it's a little more antiseptic, you don't actually have to get your hands dirty. You know, I think it's harder for people to be cruel to each other in person, you know, at the club, at the. You know, when you're shaking somebody's hand it's hard to be mean. But then on the internet it's very easy to sort of you're right, paint an evil picture of other people when you don't have to touch them and yeah, and be part of it. So I think that that is definitely something that's that's happened. You know audiences have changed in that way. I think, you know, the sex and drugs elements were much stronger when I was a kid, but that's also because I was a kid and there's also because I was a kid and there was a lot more sex and drugs around. You get older and it dries up in different ways. So there's these different.

Speaker 1: 13:32

We find our brains, yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:34

Yeah, you know I mean. So you know, I've watched the audience profile kind of change and again.

Speaker 2: 13:44

I always tried to keep it interesting as an artist and make music that turned me on in some way, you know. But you're not always turning on the audience with that, you know. So you got to kind of watch. You know what people like. What do they not like what? What? What gets people rolling? What's modern, not like what gets people rolling? What's modern, what's not modern, you know. And sometimes you can kind of lean into the older stuff and it's like cool, this is retro, this is what we used to do, and sometimes you just look old and tired doing that. So you got to kind of keep your eyes open.

Speaker 1: 14:19

Yeah, because you have to be credible, right, you can't. And if you're a high energy, high volume, you know, amped up persona, I think part of the credibility is being able to kind of carry that persona.

Speaker 2: 14:32

But you guys still have, after 40 years on the road, which is amazing so oh, yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, and the road is navigable in different ways. You know, I see a lot of bands our age that kind of navigate it by, you know, turning very inward.

Speaker 2: 14:52

They never get off the tour bus. They never shake anybody's hand. My girlfriend, we're going to do our thing, Okay, then we're going to go out on stage just for that hour and I'm going to smile and then, when it's over, I'm going to go and retreat again. That was never really why I got into it. I still like to laugh and enjoy myself and shake some hands and see some people and get that feedback from people that they had a good time.

Speaker 1: 15:28

Talking about what stokes you and you are. You are such an artist so you know clearly this. This, this punk band 40 year thing, has taken up some time. But you've also journeyed into other mediums. You you had a country music album. You had a country music album. You had a separately a bluegrass album. I'm from Tennessee, so I know my bluegrass and you're an author.

Speaker 2: 15:52

And yeah, I write books. Again, they're pretty dirty books, they're not really for the whole family, but but aren't they prose yeah? Yeah, I mean that's amazing. Yeah, I mean that's amazing. Yeah, I mean, I love to write. I think there's different ways that you can communicate with people. You know, doing it in a punk band is sort of one way.

Speaker 1: 16:14

And it's a very the way we did.

Speaker 2: 16:16

It was a very kind of id-driven attack. Yes, yes, you know it's not sort of music with a lot of air and pleasantry around it.

Speaker 2: 16:24

But you know, I've tried to produce other records that were like that. So I have this persona, ralph Champagne, and with Ralph Champagne I do more country and lounge kind of things. There's more room to kind of sing and more room to kind of, you know, have an arrangement and there's just more air in that. You know, in the Dwarf stuff it's very dense, heavy guitar, heavy drum, fast tempos. It's very common and it's sort of pounding that beats at your head. You know. So, the older you get, the more difficult it is to like listen to that and enjoy it. You know. So I try and do other kinds of music. I do a lot of stuff with female vocalists and stuff, because that's sort of the polar opposite of dwarf stuff. And then, yeah, you know, try and write fiction and keep it funny, and you know, to me it's just all different ways of communicating, you know.

Speaker 1: 17:22

I agree, I agree, communicating, you know, I agree, I agree. So, because you do this work with, as you've mentioned, with female voices and you write prose, for God's sake, even if it's quote dirty, it's prose Do you think that maybe there's a quieter, more introspective side of Paul? Or or champagne, that that that is your like reprieve from what you typically do on the stage, which is pounding, yeah, yeah, I mean, and it also depends.

Speaker 2: 17:55

I mean, I think there's a lot of kind of Catholic guilt with this stuff. So people will play punk for a while and then it's like I don't want to do this anymore, I want to be a different person. You know, or I'm, I'm going to write a book now. I'm going to be a whole different person. But you know, after a while it all just kind of became media to me. So it's like the people, the person who you are, you can't get rid of. That's just, that's just you. You're stuck with that. But then you've got these other modes of expression and you can express yourself in a way that a 14-year-old would applaud and scream at or a way that a 50-year-old would applaud and enjoy. And I think you have to, in your mind, as an artist, as you're making these things, you have to keep your path clear and understand what it is you're trying to do. You know I'm not trying to get the same things out of a ralph champagne record as I'm trying to get out of a dwarves record.

Speaker 2: 18:52

So if something will occur to me to do. That would be really funny in the dwarves context I have to remember. Oh, I can't really do that with this because people won't take the joke the same way. You know you can make very offensive jokes in the dwarves that have a certain scenario Everyone's dying, everyone's being murdered, everyone's on drugs, you know. And then when you're writing a book, you know you more have to take on different characters' personas and to tell the story right.

Speaker 2: 19:22

You can't just have this one-dimensional pounding over the head with it. So right, that's what's been interesting about kind of having different scenarios?

Speaker 1: 19:30

different personas, yeah, of how you show up and still communicate with people. So it is clear you've mentioned it a couple of times, but the research was clear that some of what the dwarves do is controversial, sensational, angry. Even so, in today's climate we mentioned, things have, like you know, settled down. They're a little more careful. But do you see that work that you guys do from from the dwarf side? Do you think that's a commentary on extremism and bad behavior, or is it? Or is it just who you were at the time and you carried forward?

Speaker 1: 20:13

that that kind of persona, people expected.

Speaker 2: 20:16

It's all of the above. I mean to me, it was always a funny thing and you either got the joke or you didn't. At the same time yes, a lot of times when people thought we were just joking, it was like, nope, we weren't joking about that you know you can't with us, we're gonna get you, you know so it was like you know, I think it.

Speaker 2: 20:40

you know, my concern was always making great art that I enjoyed and trying to just pay my bills so that I could make that art Fair. And so, you know, we got left out of a lot of things. We got left out of a lot of record deals, a lot of radio play, a lot of media coverage, a lot of the. You know, the Dwarves sort of already paid our dues by being so extreme that we was just like, yeah, okay, you guys, you know, ha ha, we get the joke, but you're not invited, you're not included.

Speaker 1: 21:15

We're not putting you on this plane yet.

Speaker 2: 21:18

You know, you just got that left off. And so what's funny is that, you know, know we, I became very hardened to all of that. Okay, and so you know, as the years went on, funny things happen, right, because you watch somebody. You got a great record deal in the 90s trying to play it safe or be somewhere between Pearl Jam and Candlebox and whatever they were trying to be, and now you know that that's the biggest moment of their life, you know and they'll never get that back and they're just like you know how come nobody cares about what I was doing in 1995.

Speaker 2: 21:53

It's like, whereas we had to stay strong, you know, because nobody did care. So it was like, okay, you know, we're gonna make records we think are, we don't care how many copies we sell, we don't care whether the radio thinks this is acceptable, we're just, we're going to be happy with doing what we do. And the paradox is people recognize the, the, you know that integrity, yeah, and so when the whole kind of cancellation movement happened, we were kind of immune to it. It's like, what are you going to do? Like I had nudity on the cover of 10 records, you know, I said in every other song title like, what exactly are you going to do that's going to expose me as this horrible person who was, you know, insincere, you know, whereas you look at these other bands who've kind of fallen, you know anti flag or whatever, yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:49

Invariably, it was these bands that had this moral thing. They were always moralizing at you and pointing at you and telling you why you were a sexist or a racist or a bad person, or a racist or a bad person. And lo and behold, it turned out. Oh, you know, those were the people who weren't very morally upright, you know what I mean. And all of a sudden they have to run away screaming They've been canceled, right, they were coming on so moralistic, but oh, it turned out they were shitty people. I think with the dwarves it was just the opposite. You know, we came on like we have no morals, we don't get it.

Speaker 2: 23:28

Yeah, we're not trying to be your friend, we're not trying to be your moral exemplar. And then, oh, it turned out we were actually pretty cool and we were a legitimate underground rock band and we weren't some corporate thing. We actually did treat people pretty well and everything was actually pretty good. So you know, it's like that, that sort of sweet revenge. You know a lot of people who I had to watch vault past me in the eighties and the nineties are still struggling because they never quite figured out you know how to make a t-shirt without their manager doing it for them, and and how to get a record out of people without their PR team doing it for them.

Speaker 2: 24:07

But all those things go away. You know you lose the PR team, you lose the management, you lose that stuff. And so you know we're proud to still be here. I still go out and play music with my friends. I still have a good time playing music with my friends, and people listen to it and I make a living at it, so I consider myself very fortunate.

Speaker 1: 24:31

A very fortunate human. Yeah, I talk with a lot of people that are our age about relevance, because I think when you hit your 50s, most of us not you, maybe, but most of us are starting life's changing. How people look at us changes.

Speaker 2: 24:48

So how do you girls, just look right through me now you know instead of clawing their way to the stage right. So you know, you go to the gym and there's a bunch of college chicks are just looking. They're just looking right through you and you go to the supermarket. You don't even register anymore.

Speaker 1: 25:06

Yeah, yeah. So how do you look at relevance, other than those chicks that don't know any better? They will grow up one day. But what do you think relevance is about? Is it about staying consistent or is it about, like, finding new ways to shift or grow? Grow more than shift? You are so authentic and true to yourself. I don't think you shift, but I think you do.

Speaker 2: 25:28

Yeah, I you know, I think there's two ways of looking at it. You know, one is the sort of universal way. You know, does any of this matter in the context of? You know, love and family and you know oral virtue?

Speaker 1: 25:42

you know and I think the answer is no, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2: 25:46

And then there's the level on which it's like well, what about just making people want to wake up and face the day? What about making a song that just makes you happy that day? What about painting a picture that just made somebody smile? You know, and I think in that way it's the most important things that people do, you know. So I think in that way it's just eternally relevant, whereas commercially it has no relevance or importance at all yeah, I love it.

Speaker 2: 26:20

You have to kind of be schizophrenic in that way and understand both sides of it. You know I. You know the time when I was going to sell out madison square garden or have the number one song on on terrestrial radio. You know those, those things are over and so the people who were struggling with that when they were 20 and really that was important to them, I think they have a problem with their relevance. You know, my, my stuff is more like I'm making a cool underground album for the couple thousand people that are going to understand it.

Speaker 1: 26:58

Yeah, yeah, you know, identify with it.

Speaker 2: 27:00

That's what I'm doing, you know. So, you, if that's what you're doing, then you can be infinitely relevant within that context. You know what I mean. For those 5,000 people, it means everything. For the other 8 billion people it means nothing. You know, and that's just sort of where it's at.

Speaker 1: 27:19

Yeah. So who are you offstage? What would surprise people about music or moments that your closest fans would go? Oh God, no, barry Manilow, really.

Speaker 2: 27:39

Yeah, my guilty pleasures in music. Well, for a start, I was raised in musical theater. I never got a part or anything. But you know, for me, yeah, I was raised in musical theater. I never got a part or anything, but you know for me. Yeah, I mean my favorite stuff is. Guys and Dolls and the Music man.

Speaker 1: 27:52

Oh, that is surprising.

Speaker 2: 27:54

I, like, you know, the cornier the musical the better. And when it comes to you know, old music, I like old pop, music from the 20s and 30s of jazz and blues and country, like just old records that people would not associate with me at all because they're easy on my brain, they don't pound at me like the music that I make, you know, yep, so that would probably sort of surprise people. And then just, you know the boring things that I find interesting. You know, I find it interesting Like my band has no political side to it whereas a lot of other bands do. But I actually find politics interesting and read about it and think about it. I just don't, I just don't associate that with what I do.

Speaker 1: 28:48

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 28:49

And and so again, you know there's a lot of kind of schizophrenia involved with it. There's a lot of compartmentalizing and putting stuff here. You know the kind of stuff I want. You know I was never very interested in family stuff. I was never very interested in family stuff, you know. But now I'm old and putting together my family and so it's different. You know, now it's now that stuff is really interesting to me, whereas for most of the years that other people were doing that stuff was like, yeah, I have no interest in that, I'm not going to do any of that, you know. So it's. You know, I think you can't. I think also with a lot of people in music or the arts, they take their image seriously, whereas to me the image is humorous and that's the fun, and then the actual person is there. If you want to get to know that person, you can, you know, but it's not as fun, you know.

Speaker 1: 29:43

You know, I admitted that I wasn't a big music person at the beginning of this, and so I don't know, do you guys like change your identities on stage? I was a. I was a big Kiss fan when I was a kid Right, and I mean, you remember those guys were in full makeup and it was like like this national phenomenon about oh who are they really, you know?

Speaker 2: 30:03

Yeah, real names or no, they had kind of stage names, I guess I think they had stagey names because, one was somebody's star, you know, yeah, so anyway, Right, yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1: 30:16

Gene Simmons has done very well as a business person.

Speaker 2: 30:19

Yeah, Gene Simmons was the name of an old movie star from the 40s, a female actually I didn't know that. And he, yeah, he appropriated.

Speaker 1: 30:29

So they ripped off her name.

Speaker 2: 30:31

Yeah, I think he has a very sort of.

Speaker 1: 30:34

Jewish. He may be a Paul as well. There's a Paul in the Kiss lineup.

Speaker 2: 30:39

Yeah, Paul Stanley Again. I think his name is, like Paul Stanley, something Jewish yeah yeah, yeah Him and. Gene were kind of these. You know, they had this vision. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's.

Speaker 1: 31:02

So do you guys change your identity on stage, or do I mean, or are you? Are you because you're very theatrical in what your album covers and the words that you use in your music are meant to elicit responses?

Speaker 2: 31:16

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 31:17

Just in T-shirts and board shorts. I saw Kenny Chesney in Vegas about a month ago because I was at a conference, not because I wanted to see, and I was like that man is in is in like cargo pants and a T-shirt and he rolled out of bed and wore his ball cap.

Speaker 2: 31:31

To him that feels very legit, Like this is real me, you know whereas a lot of times with artists like that, right, the people who are doing all the stuff are their management, so that they can then sit around and be like, hey, this is just me, you know it's like yeah right? Well, you tell your management what to do to make you appear larger than life and then it's like but this is just me, I'm just a regular guy.

Speaker 1: 31:57

Yeah, get me on my tractor. Yeah, exactly. So let's do what I like to. My final segment is usually a lightning round, and these are so much fun because I get to just rapid fire questions at people and they get to give me, you know, shorter answers that aren't maybe as compelling about the world and society, so they're more pointed maybe. So for a lightning round, let's ask so what's a band you secretly love that your fans would not expect?

Speaker 2: 32:32

Band that I secretly love.

Speaker 1: 32:33

I'm voting on Barry Manilow. I had Paige Brodby on the show Things like that.

Speaker 2: 32:40

It would be like Steely Dan right, oh, thank you. Steely Dan, they've got these, you know, corny or very, you know, like jazzy session guy stuff, which is sort of the polar opposite of a lot of what I've done, you know. But I find it interesting to listen to them and hear their kind of clean 70s cocaine technique, you know.

Speaker 1: 33:04

Cocaine. So who's a band? Because because you know people are going to listen to this and go listen to that band because it surprises them. Let's listen to that band yeah, who, you got one that comes to mind it's what steely dan. That's not a band steely dan, that wasn't a real answer, was it?

Speaker 2: 33:21

yeah, oh, geez okay steely Go.

Speaker 1: 33:24

Steely Dan, I was expecting something less commercial from you. No, that's the point.

Speaker 2: 33:31

That's my guilty pleasure. I'm fine with the commercials.

Speaker 1: 33:35

Good good, I love it. Fine. So punk has been around. How long has punk been around? 50 years, if you've been doing it 40?.

Speaker 2: 33:47

It depends where you trace the beginning of it. I trace the beginning of it to the mid sixties, where the bands like Deeds and the 13th floor elevators and these obscure like sixties garage bands. To me that's where punk starts, with the Sonics and that kind of stuff. Then of course you get to like late sixts where you get like the Stooges and then early 70s with bands like the New York Dolls and stuff like that. I think modern punk kind of starts with the Ramones in the mid 70s.

Speaker 1: 34:18

I've heard of some of these. I'm excited. Yeah, Okay, good. Well, so you know, clearly people who started with the genre are aging out in some way. So if punk had a retirement village, what would you name it?

Speaker 2: 34:36

Broken Dreams.

Speaker 1: 34:37

Broken Dreams. Okay, I love it, that works. So we've talked about album covers. We've talked about art and album covers and how your music is somewhat controversial and you said you had 10 albums with nudity on the cover.

Speaker 2: 34:56

Yeah, there's probably maybe 20 records total, and at least half of them have nudity on the cover. I like looking at attractive females. That was always my thing.

Speaker 1: 35:07

I figured.

Speaker 2: 35:08

Why would you want to look at a picture of me when you could look at a picture of an attractive female?

Speaker 1: 35:13

Or that, that famous Nirvana cover with the little boy swimming in the pool like a toddler. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 35:20

Well, that that says more about them, that it's a little boy, you know. But I won't get into Nirvana's habits.

Speaker 1: 35:25

I was in grad school when Kurt passed away.

Speaker 2: 35:30

So, yeah, that was the big ending we played with Nirvana 1991.

Speaker 1: 35:37

Wow, and that would have been by the time I was headed to grad school, so amazing. So if you could redo just one of those album covers, which one would you redo and why?

Speaker 2: 35:49

Oh boy, okay, do just one of those album covers. Which one would you redo and why? Oh boy, I had a chance to redo one called sugar fix. Um, and we made it better. You know, we went to a girl's sweet 16, okay, we took pictures there and it was kind of a dope themed sweet 16. Yep, so we had, like you know, like spoons but with a pixie stick going into it and stuff like that over a candle. You know, it was kind of mocking the everybody was dying on drugs. But the guy who shot it, it was sort of a news photographer guy.

Speaker 2: 36:26

He wasn't like a portrait photographer he didn't really know what he was doing yeah so we had to go back and, you know, lighten it up and bring out smiles and do all this stuff, like you can do these interesting things now, you know. Yeah, so so we went back and kind of remade that one and that was interesting, you know, or like there was one that a guy had taken with this tiny little model, but he did it with a tiny little dog, so she didn't look tiny enough, things like that, you know. So I'll go, I'll go back and redo them.

Speaker 1: 36:58

I never redo them to make them cleaner yeah, okay, and that's a statement to me look better, you know yeah yeah, because you had another creative interpretation of it, so that's good. So a lot of people are prima donnas. I've I I work less with bands and more with speakers, so I've known people who absolutely have to have diet mountain dew backstage, you know they have. They have some little thing that's there like must have so what's your must have backstage a toilet.

Speaker 2: 37:30

We're so easy. Can I come? Support you yeah, okay it doesn't even have to be clean. I mean, it is rock and roll, so it's probably going to be filthy, but just please get a toilet bag there yeah, yeah give you that one favor no, all green m&ms or diet mountain deuce for you just just ahead that's all you need. Well, that's, that's it. Yeah, love it.

Speaker 1: 37:52

So what's the worst gig you've ever done? What's what stands out in memory is one of the worst gigs ever wow, worst gigs ever because of course it has to have a funny story with it right, I, I play acoustically.

Speaker 2: 38:07

Sometimes I'm a really piss poor acoustic guitar player, so anytime I have to pull the guitar out it makes me sad. And I've done some very funny shows. I have funny songs, you know, and so you know I've gotten a lot of laughs doing those shows. But they just torture me. I just hate playing guitar.

Speaker 1: 38:30

So do you play any instrument on stage, or is it just you being the front man?

Speaker 2: 38:35

Yeah, I mean, it's just me being the front man.

Speaker 1: 38:39

And I shouldn't say just because that's a full-time job.

Speaker 2: 38:43

Yes, well, I mean most of what I do is writing songs and that you know I need an instrument for sometimes, sometimes, I just do it in my head. Yeah, but I hate having to perform on it. I don't enjoy that.

Speaker 1: 38:59

Okay, love it. So 10, 15 years from now, you're curating your Black black dahlia museum yes what's the first item that you pull into one of those lit glass cases to show?

Speaker 2: 39:14

who you are probably my rock guy gloves. You know I have my. My gloves I've been wearing since the 80s okay, so that's your sometimes I forget them, but usually I have them on. You know, this sort of shop-worn retro piece of clothing.

Speaker 1: 39:32

It's part of your stage presence, so I love it. Good, that's right. So, in retrospect, blagg, at 25 years old, walks into the room. What do you? Sit him down and tell him.

Speaker 2: 39:48

You know, be a little bit nicer, don't be so mean.

Speaker 1: 39:53

Huh.

Speaker 2: 39:54

Don't be so impatient. Things will happen in time. Those would probably be two things I would tell him Be a little bit nicer and don't be so impatient.

Speaker 1: 40:10

Yeah, any quotes that stand out for you or models that stand out.

Speaker 2: 40:16

If you can't be good, then be forceful.

Speaker 1: 40:21

Is that actually a quote?

Speaker 2: 40:22

Or is that just your quote? That's your quote, excellent.

Speaker 1: 40:24

Excellent, excellent. Or is that just your quote? That's your quote Excellent, excellent. So if people want to follow you, to come see you guys, I mean, we had to wait until you were off the road for a couple of weeks. But I think you're going back on the road in September, if I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 2: 40:39

Oh yeah, lots of time on the road and we're doing a very long one. Well, in September we're going to go to Canada and we're going to go to the East Coast doing one of those punk in the park festivals out there, nice, in October, november, we're playing with some old bands GWAR and Helmet. So we're going to be going all over the country with GWAR and Helmet and that will Will you be back on the West Coast, like within an hour's drive of the Bay Area?

Speaker 2: 41:06

Yes, absolutely, we'll be in berkeley there and excellent, I think it's late october, we're we're in berkeley, so definitely come out and see us I plan to, I plan to, I will. How would I find you online so that our the dwarvescom has all our tour dates, ticket links, you know press, know press clippings, all that good stuff, if you just go to the dwarvescom. And of course we're on Facebook, instagram, all those places where commercialized people sell themselves.

Speaker 1: 41:38

Yeah, yeah, excellent. So the dwarvescom. I'll put it in the show notes. Maybe, I'll get a gaggle of friends of my age who might remember our Violent Femmes fraternity party dancing and bring you a group of women for the front row that have a little more maturity on us take your top off never. Oh, that's wonderful, excellent. So we look forward, then, to seeing you at the end of October.

Speaker 2: 42:10

I would love it. Wonderful, it would be wonderful. Thank you for talking to me.

Speaker 1: 42:13

Yeah, so it has been great to have you on NorCal Narratives. There's a difference in being loud and being listened to, that's right, that's right, that's right. And you have presented so many opportunities for people to listen to you and to see you in so many different dimensions, so it's really wonderful to have met you.

Speaker 2: 42:37

Well, thanks very much. Thanks for talking to me.

Speaker 1: 42:40

Wonderful so NorCal Narratives closing off the day, from KPCR 92.9 in Los Gatos.

Speaker 2: 42:48

Pirate Cat Radio.

Speaker 1: 42:50

Pirate Cat Radio. Pirate Cat Radio.

Speaker 2: 42:53

Shout out to Daniel, my station director and shout out to Pixie, DJ Pixie and her mature content show. There's a lot of great stuff going on at Pirate Cat Tune in Check it out.

Speaker 1: 43:08

We appreciate that, Thank you. I've been with the station since early spring and it has been a fun experience, yeah it's great down there. And we just added a station and I have to look at KVBE 91.1 in Portland, so this will be broadcast in Portland and then also in Santa Cruz. Yeah, and in Santa Cruz we have KMRT. That's 101.9 LP out of Santa.

Speaker 2: 43:36

Cruz.

Speaker 1: 43:38

So you are hitting the Bay Area, santa Cruz and Portland. I think people are going to be very interested. We might have a heck of a show for you when you come to Berkeley Right on.

Speaker 2: 43:48

Thanks. We might have a heck of a show for you when you come to Berkeley Right on. Well, thanks, we'll see you soon.

Speaker 1: 43:51

Okay. So whether or not you love punk or if you even know anything about it, conversations like this they remind us that longevity often requires contradiction, because this whole call has been about really interesting contradictions and dimensions of Blagg, also known as Paul, maybe by only his mama at this point. But Blag and Paul have given into the world, and maybe that's the most rebellious thing of all is that you have shown people so many different things to think about and the different ways that you show up. So it's been a pleasure to meet you.

Speaker 1: 44:32

And everyone in the audience from NorCal Narratives. We will see you next time.

Speaker 2: 44:37

Take it easy Bye-bye, awesome.

Speaker 1: 44:39

Thank you, Blagg.