Tonya J. Long: 0:04

Welcome, Jesse and everyone else. Welcome to RESET with Tonya here on a remote edition from San Jose, California, all the way out to the yonder far in Idaho. I am here to introduce you guys to someone that I think is just absolutely remarkable. Those of you who know me or who have become part of this audience know that I have a background in tech and a deep affinity for tech. The podcast is about transitions, RESET and us changing how our lives work, in work in technology and in purpose and in longevity.

Tonya J. Long: 0:40

Jesse represents all of these, so I'm just enamored with him. He's definitely a tech bro. Well, it's not fair to call him a tech bro because that means a lot of things in different places. But he's deeply technical but he's also deeply human. He's broadcasting from a farm Y'all know I'm from Tennessee, y'all and he's talked to me about his piglets in the wintertime and his kids developing a bread-baking business, and he's talked to me about his piglets in the wintertime and his kids developing a bread baking business. So he is so real and not just about the technology, and I can't wait to highlight him and what he's doing. That also has ties to my beloved India, so at least in namesake and in development. So, Anglin, welcome. I'm so happy to have you here today.

Jesse Anglen: 1:23

Thank you very much for having me on. I've been looking forward to this. You're very fun to talk to.

Tonya J. Long: 1:30

Yeah, and that's a huge compliment. If that's what I bring the world, then I'm happy, so wonderful, to be here. Well, tell us about you, tell us about what your priorities are, apparently, because we're going to go back and dig up some things, including what we just talked about before the episode started. So what are you working on?

Jesse Anglen: 1:49

Yeah, so I'll give you the. Let me give you the 45 second simple version of Jesse. And I'm not a super complex person. I have simple motivations, maybe big aspirations, but they are, but they're simple even if they're big. But I've been an entrepreneur forever. I graduated high school very young. I was 14 and I got my first job, realized I didn't like working for people pretty quickly Mostly out of arrogance, I think Probably all the parts and pieces of what makes an entrepreneur. I thought I was better than everyone else, especially when I was 14, of what makes an entrepreneur.

Jesse Anglen: 2:25

I thought I was better than everyone else especially when I was 14, 18 years old, yeah, and so I started my first business when I was 17 in the construction industry, because that was what my dad did, and then really just worked at starting different businesses, eventually got out of construction because it was too bottleneck. The thought of creating like a global construction company sounded miserable, and so I got into real estate because I thought you know what I think I'll? I think I'll use my brain and I think I'll be a salesperson. And so I did that. For I did that for a while and actually met a guy who got me into the tech industry very heavily. Like I had experimented and even in real estate, built a couple of technical platforms and worked with a few technical teams, but this guy actually encouraged me to learn to write code. Because what? So? The whole this is going to be longer than 45 seconds, I'm realizing that's all right, we got all the time in the world.

Jesse Anglen: 3:21

Right, we can take whatever time you want Is this like Joe Rogan, where we can go for six hours.

Tonya J. Long: 3:25

Oh well, maybe get some more tea if we do that.

Jesse Anglen: 3:29

Well, I won't bore people with six hours, that would be. I don't know that I've got six hours of things to talk about. But this kid and he was a kid, he was 17 when I met him. He started buying real estate at 18, when he could legally buy real estate and had bought about $2.5 million worth of cash flowing real estate and really smart guy, probably the smartest human being I've ever known in real life and 2010,. He called me up and said hey, jesse, I want to sell all my real estate because I found a scam on a forum online called Bitcoin.

Tonya J. Long: 4:03

He said he found a scam. He said he found a scam. I thought it was a scam. He said I found this scam on a forum online called Bitcoin. He said he found a scam. He said he found a scam.

Jesse Anglen: 4:06

I thought it was a scam. He said I found this amazing technology that's going to fundamentally change the world and I want to sell all of my real estate. Which realize he's 19. Now he's got $2.5 million worth of cash-flowing real estate, right. Someone else is buying him real estate Amazing and he tells me he wants to sell it all for the $250,000 worth of equity he's going to have when he's done. And he wants to buy this scam that he found online called Bitcoin.

Tonya J. Long: 4:34

And.

Jesse Anglen: 4:34

I thought, man, this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard anyone say. So I sat down with him at a coffee shop, tried to talk him out of it. He was really convinced that Bitcoin was going to turn into something big. I was really convinced that he was an idiot. But I couldn't convince him, and so he sold all of his real estate. He sold his personal house that he was living in, he sold his car and just started riding around on a bike. He sold everything he owned. He bought a shed at a hardware store, stuck it on its parents' property, hooked it up with an extension cord, went to the bathroom in a five-gallon bucket and ate ramen noodles so that he could buy more Bitcoin. And I thought, man, this guy's gone nuts, he's lost his mind.

Jesse Anglen: 5:15

Over the course of the next couple of years, as Bitcoin went from a couple bucks to 10 bucks, I was like, oh my gosh, he has made bank because he bought a lot of it. Yeah, and he kept telling me, no, it's going to go higher. I think it's going to go. It'll go to $100,000. I'm like, dude, you have no idea what you're talking about. So I continued to tell him to sell it.

Tonya J. Long: 5:34

Yeah, yeah, so it was 2010.

Jesse Anglen: 5:35

So I think he bought his first Bitcoin. He was buying his first Bitcoin under a dollar and that big purchase he made towards the end of 2010, 2011,. He was buying stuff around a couple of Bitcoin, around a couple of bucks, and what's Bitcoin trading at now? Oh, it's over $100,000.

Jesse Anglen: 5:59

$109,000 as of yesterday, I'm looking at Yahoo Finance A dollar for $109,000. No-transcript. And then I want you to work with my team and we're going to work on this new platform that is coming out called Ethereum, and we're going to start building smart contracts for people. And I said, dude, you have to realize like I have very little programming experience. He's like oh no, jesse, programming is easy. You can go on YouTube, you'll learn in three months. And I didn't do enough research to realize that's not generally how people learn how to become programmers.

Jesse Anglen: 6:50

And so I thought he was telling me the truth. So I went on YouTube and I learned how to program in three months.

Tonya J. Long: 6:56

What occurs to me is you didn't have limits because you didn't do the research. And you didn't know that you couldn't do it, and you just thought about figuring it out.

Jesse Anglen: 7:07

Yeah, I remember yeah, I can even remember the first like 11 video series that I went through. I'm like man, this seems like it's actually more complex than he's making it out to be, but I went and I sold my company that I had at the time and joined him, learned to program enough to manage and hire developers. The advantage that I did have is that there was no school at that point. Solidity as a language hadn't even been invented yet, because Gavin was still working on creating the syntax and you could learn JavaScript and then you could do it because it was all JavaScript based.

Jesse Anglen: 7:41

So, yeah, learned to program enough to be able to see what people were doing and then hired 30 developers, taught them Solidity and we deployed our first application to the Ethereum mainnet when it launched in 2015, which was a real estate application that went viral because we actually took his house, which he had bought because he had sold off some of his Bitcoin, bought this really nice house on the lake in Northern Idaho and we took that house and we basically stuck the ownership of that home on the blockchain and then posted about it on Reddit and it went viral, and so I played around in that world for a long time with him. Eventually, in oh, maybe 2018, we'll call it Zach and I decided to part ways. He had some stuff that he wanted to focus on and I had stuff that I wanted to focus on. It was a natural, a natural parting.

Jesse Anglen: 8:39

And so I created a company called Rapid Innovation, which is a company that I own today, and there was a massive gap in the marketplace for emerging tech. If you wanted to go and outsource the creation of any sort of blockchain development, it was very difficult, because there was a lot of development companies that would tell you that they knew what they were doing, but they had no idea what they were doing, and so, unless you went out and hired your own personal team of people, it was very hard to do. So we became the largest blockchain development company that you could outsource work to really globally in, I would say, 2019.

Jesse Anglen: 9:20

And did that for a long time and then eventually started adding in all of the other emerging tech, and blockchain was a part of it, ai was a part of it, iot was a part of it, ar and VR was a part of it, and we wanted to be the development company that could help people with, instead of with, their legacy tech needs, which there are 10,000 development companies that did that. We wanted to help people with all the tech that you couldn't hire someone to help you with, and you could hire us. We'd build you your startup or your MVP, and then you could go launch it to the world and see what happened. And so because of that, and because I had done a lot of that working with Zach, I just started working with tons and tons of startups and founders that were building out technology. Zach, I just started working with tons and tons of startups and founders that were building out technology. I think I recently crossed the 500 startups launched Milestone.

Tonya J. Long: 10:10

Love it.

Jesse Anglen: 10:11

This year actually, and not my own, of course, just working with other people. Yeah, had tons and tons of fun, and then at some point we'll call it in probably 2020, I started having an affair with AI.

Tonya J. Long: 10:26

My love up to that point had been blockchain. It is a compulsion when you get started.

Jesse Anglen: 10:30

Yeah, and very specifically around one niche in AI. I had a guy that was working for me, that was part of my onboarding team, and so he would take a client that had a requirement and figure out what that requirement was and bring them on board, put together the technical requirement documents, the user stories.

Jesse Anglen: 10:49

A lot of work goes into pulling an idea out of someone's head and making it tangible enough that a developer can actually sit down and build it like it was in their head. And that was my discovery team and he was a part of it, and it took us somewhere between four and six weeks to do a discovery for a new client, depending on the project. Sometimes longer, sometimes shorter. I noticed with this one guy that he was working a lot less than everyone else. He was doing a better job than everyone else and you appreciated that.

Jesse Anglen: 11:22

Yeah, it was funny when I called him up and said, dude, what's going on? He thought he was getting fired Right, which I think is interesting because, that was the mentality back then was that if you used AI and you outsourced your labor to a machine, then you'd be fired.

Tonya J. Long: 11:36

Right Now, in this case he was using.

Jesse Anglen: 11:39

Yeah, he was using a version, a large. He was using ChatGPT 3 which I believe it had a 7000 token context window. I mean it was a terrible model. If you want to know, like, just go play around with it and talk to it. You'd be surprised at how stupid it is right.

Tonya J. Long: 11:56

But he had architected this.

Jesse Anglen: 11:58

Yes.

Tonya J. Long: 11:59

Right, he's doing more with a bad model compared to what we have today.

Jesse Anglen: 12:04

Oh man.

Tonya J. Long: 12:06

And still outworking his peers like 5X.

Jesse Anglen: 12:09

Oh, he had taken a process and what I found out later was that he actually wasn't even. He was barely working at all. If he worked eight hours a day, he could do a discovery in four days, right. So he took a six-week process and he turned it into a four-day process. But he didn't want to do that because he was afraid he'd get noticed and then he would get fired, which is funny right, like someone will notice that you're not working and you'll get fired.

Jesse Anglen: 12:33

So, instead of doing that, him and I started working together on building these systems to do work. Now, the term agentic system didn't exist. The term digital labor didn't exist. There wasn't even really a way to think about what these systems were or how they work. What I knew was that you could augment somebody's skills, whatever they were, with AI and make them significantly more effective and efficient and even improve the quality of the work that they were doing. Improve the quality of the work that they were doing. And that was the moment for me that the light turned on and I went this is what the future of labor is going to be. It will not be people doing things. People are going to be providing input and they're going to be providing the curation of creation, and so I fell in love with it. Now, I had lots of really big ideas and cool things I wanted to do, and the technology just was not there. For years and years, I would go to my CTO and say, hey, I want to build this thing, and he's Jesse, you can't build that. And we tried a few times to build things that you couldn't build and then, eventually, the tech would catch up with it, and then we would build these different agentic systems and we would add them into our company and we started doing that for clients as well, and then rapid innovation really morphed from just because of my interests, I think from a blockchain development company and a smart contract development company into a digital labor development company which is

Jesse Anglen: 13:57

what we do today is help people build out digital labor systems, build out digital labor systems which, even if there were no clients or customers, I would figure out a way to just do it on my own, because I'm too fascinated by this future where human beings are no longer the creators of value, we're just the curators of value, and we're no longer the input output processors, we're just the input output provider. Right, so we provide inputs, the machine provides the output that is valuable, and then we can then provide that to the world, which should, in theory, bring down the cost of all value creation, which means that the idea of scarcity when it comes to how humans live lives, things should become less and less scarce. Right, abundance should be a bigger and more impactful, more important part of everyone's lives, and so I'm very passionate about digital labor and about agentic systems and how to make the world a better place through all those things. So that's my 45-second intro.

Tonya J. Long: 14:58

Jeez, where do we start? We could unpack that for six hours.

Jesse Anglen: 15:04

Yeah, there might be something there.

Tonya J. Long: 15:06

There might be something there we should. Yeah, we'll develop a series of Jesse, all the different transitions and RESET and the horizons that you see, because you are, you're a witness to the future, right, right, where I, where I get stuck here in my, here in my Bay Area bubble, is we're so we're too busy talking concepts, and when I talk with you, you're building it, you're doing it. You're not caught up in the whirl of how to speak about it, you're caught up in the bubble of how to make it work. Right, so you pretty much said sayonara to the traditional schooling methods. I don't think you went to college because you said, because I'm assuming, because you said sayonara you never needed it.

Jesse Anglen: 15:54

I'm busy making money to go to college and they wanted me to pay them to do stuff I could figure out online it was so weird.

Tonya J. Long: 16:01

What's remarkable to me is that you are a tremendous technical mind but you are self-taught, and of course, I relate that to all the people out there who are so intimidated about AI. I interviewed a bright, smart woman my age last week. She'd never used ChatGPT and I just my mind was, and she lives here in the Bay Area. My mind was blown. She's in the music industry and really really smart, but just had not been interested. And I think people are really intimidated, including CEOs of companies that are, you know, large-scale companies, and they're just intimidated by what they don't know. And I know it's different at 14. You don't have an ego to overcome on not knowing how to do things, but what's your guidance?

Jesse Anglen: 16:51

It was nice to live my whole life that way, though, because I never had one of the things that's really interesting with all of my friends that, if you think about it, I'm a high school dropout. I did go through and get all my testing done and I could have gone to college. Like I said, I was too busy making money and starting businesses to go do it, and I thought maybe I'll go to college once I retire from my first startup.

Tonya J. Long: 17:13

Just so that I can get it through my system.

Jesse Anglen: 17:16

But I have since discovered that you can get a PhD the equivalent to a PhD in almost any subject you're interested in, and this was pre-LLM, pre-ChatGPT.

Jesse Anglen: 17:27

You could get it just going on YouTube and watching people talk about things, because experts, for some stupid reason, decide to hop on YouTube and dedicate their life to teaching people what they know, and so if you want to know those things, you can hop on YouTube and learn them. And I never really knew anything else, right, because I was self-taught all through high school and I just continued. I figured that's how life worked. If you want to know something, you go learn it, cause that's what my mom told me.

Tonya J. Long: 17:53

So I did.

Jesse Anglen: 17:55

I even get intimidated by some stuff, Like the other day I was going and doing something completely new, right, I'd never. I had never done it before and it was stupid. It was going and doing some administrative stuff in my Google console for for my company.

Jesse Anglen: 18:10

And and I just never done it, and I got that feeling right. Oh man, this is very overwhelming and it's very intimidating. But here's the thing is once you realize that you have a tutor at your hands, like just you've got a tutor that is right there and can help you, with anything.

Jesse Anglen: 18:27

It takes the pressure off right, Because anytime you go and learn something new, it's easier to learn it with someone who's done it right, Like. One of the things that humans do very intuitively is, if they I don't know if your car breaks down, you don't generally go out there and tear the car apart and try to figure out what it is that's broken, right, you call somebody whether it be a friend or a mechanic or someone who can help you understand what's wrong, even if you want to fix it yourself right and then someone will come over and they'll be like oh, it's the starter's out and that's the starter, and this is where I buy my stuff online and you learn right on what it looks like to do this thing. That might seem really intimidating or difficult. Chat GPT, like any of these large language models, provide that for you on any subject, anywhere, about anything that you want to learn.

Tonya J. Long: 19:17

Yeah.

Jesse Anglen: 19:17

And so one of the things that I tell people is the first mental block you have to get over is you don't like Chat. Gpt will teach you how to use itself If you just hop on and say hey, this is what I do for a living, this is what my key responsibilities are, these are my daily tasks, and I'm wondering how I could use an LLM to be more efficient. Can you help explore that with me? It will teach you. You don't have to come call me because of an expert or anybody else. It's the expert and it'll just bring you through that process of doing it. The first thing you just all you have to do is be good at asking questions.

Tonya J. Long: 19:58

And I think it's a mindset shift to learn to treat AI as a collaborator, to have those conversations. It doesn't require code anymore to get our technology to do things for us, now that it's conversational with generative AI. I will tell, I'll tell a story. You made me think of it. It's been a long time Early chat, gpt days.

Tonya J. Long: 20:24

You know, I have an Airstream and I couldn't get the umbilical to work. The umbilical is the plug that connects the Airstream to the car for towing so that it controls, like the braking system on the Airstream, brake lights, those things. And it was and it wasn't connecting. You know, I was inserting it into the car but it wasn't connecting and everybody I knew was on their way to this Airstream rally and I was like what do I do? What do I do?

Tonya J. Long: 20:48

And I'm laying up under the back of my SUV and I pull my phone out and I ask ChatGPT what to do about my power, basically my power cable between my SUV and my car Sorry, my SUV and my RV and ChatGPT gave me four options and the second one worked and I was just smitten because you know, I think a lot of people box these tools in, they box it into whatever their mindset is and it tends to be more transactional, technical, and mine was, you know, very like earthy, mechanical, and it gave me the answer and I that was early days and I was like, oh my god, I do have this tutor in my pocket and for me, better than YouTube. I couldn't watch eight YouTube videos laying up under the back of my car trying to plug this in. I needed, I needed like a text-based answer. You know, give me the response and I just think it's changing the relationship.

Jesse Anglen: 21:54

Knowing that that tutor, collaborator is in your pocket is an amazing thing. Yeah, no, like 100%, yeah 100%.

Tonya J. Long: 21:58

So I want to ask you something kind of off the beaten path though, because you and we're going to get into it. You are very human-oriented. You very much value. You're not just about replacing people with AI, you're about augmenting their lives.

Jesse Anglen: 22:16

Here's the thing about that subject that I think is interesting. Okay, as someone who's managed lots and lots of employees in my life, they are the bane of my existence to some extent.

Tonya J. Long: 22:27

I understand.

Jesse Anglen: 22:28

People cause all the problems right. Very rarely do you find a problem and there isn't some person smacked out in the middle of that problem that you're dealing with. But at the same time that is true, it is also true that people provide almost all of the motivation for others. Provide almost all of the motivation for others. There are very few people who are so self-motivated that they can just plug away at something for a decade without any input right.

Jesse Anglen: 22:51

They provide accountability, they provide encouragement, they provide a shoulder to cry on when things suck, generally because of other people, and I wouldn't want to do any of the things that I've done in my life without a team of really awesome people around me to help me do it, even if those people only provided encouragement, accountability, criticism, critique those kinds of things. Right Collaboration, new ideas, different perspectives those are the parts of humanity that actually I find LLMs lack. They can't really encourage you Not really, because you always wonder is it just telling me what it thinks? I want to hear there was that moment a while back with.

Jesse Anglen: 23:32

ChatGPT, where everyone realized it has become sycophantic. Right, you could say, hey, I want to create this awesome, I want to create this sandwich shop and we're going to go and collect dog poop from the dog parks and then we're going to put it on sandwiches and it's oh man, that's a great idea, jesse, and you're like yeah, you no longer are actually intelligent enough to know whether or not something is an idea or not a good idea, right.

Jesse Anglen: 23:55

But I can call you up and tell you that and you'll be like Jesse, I love your ambition but, it's a terrible idea.

Tonya J. Long: 24:00

Like don't do it.

Jesse Anglen: 24:05

Terrible content, yeah, yes, but on the humanity side, go ahead, and so I want to have a team of people around me.

Jesse Anglen: 24:07

Like I want to have people involved in this value creation process that we all call enterprise or business or whatever it is we call it. In fact, I would say that I need to have people around me, so I don't want a world in which we get rid of all the people that are creating value. What I want to do is I want to get rid of all the barriers to value creation, and so right now, there's so many problems when it comes from. If you look at someone's idea right which, I've heard thousands of ideas now probably.

Tonya J. Long: 24:41

Yeah, 500 startups. You've heard more than thousands probably, yeah, 500 startups.

Jesse Anglen: 24:47

You've heard more than thousands. Yeah, yeah, it's thousands of ideas, right? Lots of those ideas are really good. The reason that most startups fail aren't because they have good ideas or bad ideas.

Jesse Anglen: 24:55

Generally, it's all the problems that come up in the execution, right? Almost everyone has something that is valuable to somebody, even if it's a very small niche of people that it's valuable to. What I want to do is I want to get rid of the friction in the value creation process from beginning to end, so that somebody can have a good idea that actually adds value to the world in some way, and then, digitally, you augment all of the, all the steps that normally would shut that business down and you allow those people to actually create it, whether that be like a financial roadblock because they can't raise, they can't raise funds, or like it's hard to find developers, or even just the administrative, organizational side of things, the business planning side of things, the financial planning side of things, like all of these can be agentic systems that you build inside your company that then remove that friction and allow you to focus on the value creation, and to me, that's. I love that vision of the future.

Tonya J. Long: 25:55

Yeah, and You're building it. You are building and I can only imagine the growth we've seen in the last three years. Like you were talking about, Chat GPT3 versus now is just not even. It's like an infant versus a 50-year-old PhD.

Tonya J. Long: 26:14

But I want to go back to something, though, about humanity and our behavioral traits.

Tonya J. Long: 26:22

For some people we may not stay here long, but I saw a video, probably a week ago, that really made me pause our behavioral traits. For some people we may not stay here long, but I saw a video, probably a week ago, that really made me pause. There was a technical man and it was like a six-minute interview and he had become pretty addicted I'm holding my cell phone, it's over here to the ChatGPT voice system and he was tearing apart a desktop and talking, collaborating back and forth about what to do because the fan wasn't kicking on when it needed to and he was really addicted to talking with the ChatGPT voice interface. And then it cut to him and his partner and he talked about how much he needed ChatGPT. And she says to him but don't you need me? And there was this huge painful pause and they had a two or three-year-old and so the interviewer that asks both of them and says to him if you had to choose between your voice interface and the mother of your child, your partner, what would you do?

Jesse Anglen: 27:33

Oh gosh.

Tonya J. Long: 27:34

And he said I don't know, and you could just see the woman trying to maintain composure, because but I feel like that. You know it might sound absurd to us, you know, but I feel like more and more people are leaning into digital communication. You know, I speak to groups of older women and I'm like you know, your child's going to date an AI, your teenager will date an AI companion and they're like no, and you can just see them panicking. But you know, ais always tell you you're pretty. They never get upset when you go do things because you've reprioritized something else ahead of them. We are all more and more controversial.

Jesse Anglen: 28:17

They're very safe. Relationally, they're incredibly safe. I do think that is If you want to talk about the dangers of AI. That's a whole another conversation that you probably have. I think it's not the dangers of.

Tonya J. Long: 28:27

AI. It's the dangers of the human condition we have to. Ai didn't do that to anybody, and I think that you're this is not what you work on, but you are surrounded by the risk and I think that people like us have to be talking about. It's an intentional thing to decide. You cut your company from 300 people to 100 people. I dare say you could have cut it to a tenth of the hundred and been tactically able to execute. You chose. You chose to keep 100 because you wanted people around you. You had some great quote that said something like to have a big company with no people would be an awfully lonely place.

Jesse Anglen: 29:10

Yeah, that's like the big dream right now is a unicorn built with a single person right, I want to go and build a unicorn.

Tonya J. Long: 29:17

It'll happen.

Jesse Anglen: 29:18

I'm 100% sure it'll happen. I think that person is going to be significantly less satisfied with his end result because he did it so on his own. I think that AI, on the relational side of things when it comes to humanity like AI and humanity, the question isn't that different from what? As far as the effects of it, it's not that different from what social media did to humanity. So I am like you're in the generation way before social media, right?

Jesse Anglen: 29:46

So you remember calling people on the phone and having a relationship with humans right, like that was your that was the life that you lived.

Tonya J. Long: 29:54

I was the hybrid.

Jesse Anglen: 29:55

The first half of my life was spent in that world. Second half of my life was spent in the social media texting era, and I remember hanging out with my friends until dark, when I had to go home or my mom would be mad and ride my bike around on the streets and not having a phone where anyone could call me. And if you wanted to have a social interaction, you went and made friends and you hung out with them and all of those conversations that are happening digitally today were happening in person. And I think that, as the human race is concerned, social media took something incredibly valuable away from us and actually I'm encouraged. I've been watching the youngest generation, so my kids' generation. They're starting to go back to real human relationships.

Jesse Anglen: 30:39

They want to hang out with their friends, like yeah, analog um, because I think they see the damage that the really it's fake relationships, what?

Tonya J. Long: 30:52

is what's boiled down to. Is you've?

Jesse Anglen: 30:53

removed yourself far enough away from the relationship that you can you have. This just, it's just fake. When I think what ai does and there's a specific example that I use because I think it illustrates the danger for humanity but before I even get into that, what AI does is it allows synthetic relationship. Right Add it, there was a gal who had been on OnlyFans for a long time and she made herself a digital twin.

Tonya J. Long: 31:26

Yep.

Jesse Anglen: 31:27

And basically you could have a conversation with it. It would send you pictures, do the normal thing. She made that available and within a month and she charged, I think, $2 a minute or something like that, if you want to use it. In her first month she made something like $30 million.

Jesse Anglen: 31:43

Yeah, I remember this In her first month she made something like $30 million. Yeah, I remember this, Because there are that many people that wanted to go and have a relationship with something completely fake and, the thing is, the majority of the interactions were relational.

Tonya J. Long: 31:54

Tell me that I validate my feelings and all the things that human beings really need.

Jesse Anglen: 32:00

I think that's like terrifying. Yeah, I think that's like terrifying, yeah, because in that mode where people no longer interact with each other, I really don't want to live in a world that looks like that.

Tonya J. Long: 32:11

Like I'm not going to.

Jesse Anglen: 32:12

Even if the world goes that way like it won't be the world I'm living in and I think it will I think for a generation or two we're going to see, let's say, three decades. We're going to watch this ruin a lot of people's lives, really harm people relationally, and then at some point their kids will be like this is stupid, just like my kids are saying that the social media, the last 20 years of social media, is stupid and they'll exit and we'll find that equilibrium where it's helpful, but not domineering and intrusive.

Tonya J. Long: 32:45

Yeah, we're going to pause for a very quick station break. You are listening to KMRT-LP 101.9 out of Santa Cruz and KPCR 92.9 LP out of Los Gatos, and then we've been talking about the human side, but on the technology side, you know, we still control AI. We are. I picked up this book on my desk because I spent some time last week with DKai. This is a really hot book right now and he's he's brilliant. He built a lot of the foundational language models for all the bigs I could list them all but all the bigs and he's amazing. But he said we still own AI, we're still training AI, we're the last generation. He refers to it as parenting, parenting AI and he says AI will be training AI in the near future, and so I think about the human dependency and I think about we own, like the interface to that.

Jesse Anglen: 33:59

But pretty soon we won't, and I think it proves, at least to some extent, that the biggest blocker right now in making AI smarter is the human reinforcement portion of it. And if you can outsource that to the AI model itself, you can remove that bottleneck and AI becomes faster, smarter. Yep, yep. Or smarter, faster if people aren't involved in the training, and so it's already happening. Mm-hmm in the training, and so it's already happening and once it fully happens, we're going to see some really crazy exponential stuff.

Tonya J. Long: 34:30

Exponential growth, and we already can't keep up with the growth that's happening now. Hence people being intimidated, hence people avoiding and ignoring the obvious. And I can't imagine it when it really hits its inflection point, because it hasn't yet.

Jesse Anglen: 34:46

Yeah, when I forget that people are ignoring it because I'm up to my eyeballs. We're involved, we're immersed, every single day, right yeah, and every once in a while I surface and I go somewhere to a party or wherever and I talk to people and they're like what do you do for a living? I tell them what I do and they're like oh yeah, chat, GPT, I've heard of that, oh yeah, or I I use that once and I'm like, oh yeah, that's right.

Tonya J. Long: 35:15

Oh yeah, there's still a lot of people in the world who have no idea what's coming. Yeah, now you remember, I'm from Tennessee, so my life was not always in the bubble. Help me and help them, because you know my family at the beauty shop in Gainesboro. They listen to this sometimes. Help them understand what's possible, because what I love about you is you're not just talking about concepts, you're not talking about what we could do. You are doing it. So an agentic AI for a lot of people who aren't in our bubble is probably like huh, yeah. So Help us understand in like real world terms what you're, what you're doing for people so that they can live better lives because they're working less or they're working less on the mundane things.

Jesse Anglen: 36:02

So I'm just going to show you my, I'm going to show you my screen, because this is OK, running right now.

Tonya J. Long: 36:07

Oh, this looks interesting. Now for radio audience. Talk, talk to what, what you're sharing a little differently. No, I'm going to make, I'm going to.

Jesse Anglen: 36:14

I'm going to explain this very vividly, if I can, and so what this is. So when I start, I've got another company that I just started called Ruh. ai.

Tonya J. Long: 36:26

So, r-u-hai, I do want to talk about that, yes.

Jesse Anglen: 36:29

Yeah, and yeah, we'll get into that at some point. But the idea behind that that that we'll talk about the idea behind it later. I wanted to raise money for it, Right, and so I hate raising money. It's probably one of my least favorite activities in the world Same myself. This big list of active investors in the US with 20,000 people on it, and I started looking at it and I wrote a couple of emails and I called a couple of people, maybe made it through like maybe two 200 people on the list and I went oh gosh, there's 20,000 people here.

Jesse Anglen: 37:03

This is going to take forever. This is going to be miserable and of the calls I made, I'm doing very right because I'm more of a plow through it kind of guy and so if there's a phone number, I'll call it and then they tell me oh no, we don't invest in stuff like you.

Tonya J. Long: 37:18

Oh, we don't do this. Oh, we don't do that.

Jesse Anglen: 37:23

And I thought I'm wasting so much time research on all of the angels and VCs. Basically, we'll just call it venture capital research to find out what these people actually, what they actually believe in.

Jesse Anglen: 37:42

And so I built a system with a bunch of different agents, so one agent, so all of the agents identify the person right, so they go in there's actually an identity identification verification agent that goes in and says, okay, here's the information I have, here's this person, and it builds a dossier of who that person is, so you know who it is. Then it passes it to four different agents. One is a social media agent research agent that looks for every single thing. In the last year and a half, that person has ever posted on social media, commented on social media, said everything right and it grabs all that information Time out for the people at the beauty shop in Gainesboro.

Tonya J. Long: 38:17

How do you get access to their Instagram and their Facebook and their MySpace posts? In a very simple way and I'm asking you to go deep, but some people don't understand how you can scrape a year's worth of social media content.

Jesse Anglen: 38:32

So here's the thing If a human being can do it meaning if I can, if I as a person can help on the internet and do the research then an AI can do the research. You just have to tell it how to do it Right. And so, in the workflow that we, that I gave her, the process, that I gave that social media research agent, I said you know, if you don't, if you can't get access to their LinkedIn and see all the stuff, just grab what you can do, the best you can. That's what a human would do, right, they're not going to, they're not going to spend five days trying to figure it out. So that's basically what it does is it finds as much publicly available data as it can and it has access to different accounts so it can go and use the computer itself to go and look up other things that maybe a scraping tool wouldn't have access to.

Tonya J. Long: 39:17

Okay, Thank you.

Jesse Anglen: 39:19

Yeah, and oftentimes I'll give them tools like these particular agents. They'll use things like Octoparse would be one, which is like a scraping tool, or they'll use Crawl for AI, or they'll use Perplexity I mean something as simple as Perplexity deep research and so its job is to go gather everything it can on the social media side. Then there's another one that looks for every public appearance, like every blog. They've ever posted every piece of PR, they've ever done every podcast, they've ever been in grabs all that information. And then there's another one that says, okay, they work for this company or work for this VC firm. So I want to now know everything that VC firm has ever done.

Jesse Anglen: 40:01

And so it looks at its social media, it does all that stuff. And once all the research is done, it's compiled.

Tonya J. Long: 40:06

You call it a dossier. I think that's great. Compiled. You called it a dossier. I think that's great yeah.

Jesse Anglen: 40:10

Yes, and then it's given to a board. It's a round table of agents that look at two things. So in one pile they have the company that they're required to raise money for, and it sits over here, and in the other pile it's all this information about that investor and they argue with each other from different perspectives. So each agent is built to have its own perspective.

Jesse Anglen: 40:34

So one from are they going to be interested in the founding team. One of them is going to be arguing are they going to be interested in the idea? The other one is are they the right fit for the stage that we're at? And so they look at all the different things that VCs are going to look at and they basically have this conversation with each other about whether or not that particular investor, based on everything that we researched, is going to be interested in this particular idea.

Jesse Anglen: 40:59

They fight it out for a few minutes, and then they assign it a score from one to 10.

Tonya J. Long: 41:07

And I'm going to stop you for half a second, for those who aren't tracking with this. This isn't a board of people. This is a board of digital agents. This is think about multiple chat GPT instances. I'm really simplifying it. It can be any of them, but basically talking to each other from their different vantage points. This is all happening in the cloud.

Jesse Anglen: 41:30

Their different vantage points this is all happening in the cloud With the memory of what it is that they're trying to do.

Tonya J. Long: 41:34

That's an important piece.

Jesse Anglen: 41:37

And actually I'll talk about this in a little bit more, because there's a fascinating thing about memory and the intelligence side of it, if I don't forget. So they have this whole conversation, and when I say they, I'm anthropomorphizing like these LLMs, the group, the collective, yes.

Jesse Anglen: 41:55

I make them sound like people, but the truth is they're not and right now you can actually see. You can see this happening right now, like what it's. It's it that agentic system is working at the moment on a particular investor, trying to figure out whether or not they are going to be interested investing in.

Jesse Anglen: 42:09

Ruh. And so the board finishes, this board of agents. They finish, they score them. If they get a high enough score, so above an eight, then it goes to a team of copywriting agents. And so those copywriting agents, their whole job is to write a really good email and they work together. So one of them is a subject line expert and his entire job is to write a subject line based on all of the research that you've done and everything they know. Write a subject line that person will click on. I when it shows up on their inbox. I want that person, based on the psychology of who they are, the kind of interest they have.

Jesse Anglen: 42:45

I want you to write a subject line unique for that one person that they're going to click on and open. The next one is going to write a hook, right, I want you to write, I want you to write three sentences, or two sentences, that if this person reads it, they will continue to read it. The next one writes the body, the next one writes the call to action, right, and so then that all those different pieces are written, it's given to. They then pass that on to a copywriter that takes all of that. I mean, there's, they actually write multiples.

Jesse Anglen: 43:14

So two subject lines, two hooks two bodies, two, and it's given to the like a copywriter and the copywriter takes that information, the research, all the discussion that's been had up to that point and they write the perfect email and then send it, and so, like this system. I built it because I was lazy, right Like I didn't want to have to do all that stuff. I understand, it seems so much work, like if I did the research. It's four hours of research. Then I have to figure out whether or not they're going to be interested after I do all the research.

Tonya J. Long: 43:46

So let's and I still have to read through it all yeah.

Jesse Anglen: 43:48

Then I've got to write an email. I'm going to be sending one email a day, you know. Maybe, maybe two, but I doubt.

Tonya J. Long: 43:54

It's probably one email a day maybe even one email every two days if I did this. So, by contrast, just for people to understand how remarkable what you just described is, I spent two thousand dollars a couple of years ago running LinkedIn ads. Linkedin ads are basically a static canned email letter that you queue up the LinkedIn algorithm to outreach to. You know how many ever people you target and they charge you per hit, but it's static. You know you write an email that goes to the guy in Alaska and the teenager down in Honduras. If they hit the filter, they get the same letter that inserts their name and their company name and that's about as far as it goes.

Tonya J. Long: 44:42

And if you're on LinkedIn, you receive those all the time. You get those canned letters and I'll tell you from my perspective of like sending them. It is really hard to write the letter that's going to be going to everybody, because you want it to have enough content for them to know what you do and be interested in calling you back. And the last thing I'll say is I spent a couple of thousand dollars. I didn't get a single sale off of that two thousand dollar investment.

Tonya J. Long: 45:08

It was poo, that's a very I knew it was poo and I was mad the whole time I was doing it, but I was looking to drive more business and now look what you've done. People are getting customized, highly customized for them, what they do, what they care about, Because you said it goes in and looks at sentiment of the things that they've done, posted for both the company and the individual.

Jesse Anglen: 45:36

I in and looks at sentiment of the things that they've done posted for both the company and the individual. Well, I was talking to a VC out of New York that raises funds right to go out and do different things, and he said that, generally speaking, they go hire two or three interns from top colleges.

Jesse Anglen: 45:43

They pay them $120,000 a year and on a list of 20,000 investors, when they're building a fund, that's gonna take three to four months, with four people making a hundred thousand dollars a year just to do the research, just the research. So we're not talking about written.

Jesse Anglen: 46:02

Then they have a team of BDRs 10 or 15 of them and then call through all of the research people and try to get them on a call with a. Through all of the research people and try to get them on a call with a. And so he said, like this process that I'm running it, so to run the whole thing cost me five grand to run through my list of 20,000 investors and do this process. He said, yeah, like that would have been easily half a million dollars for us. And the quality like when I showed him the quality of the research and the quality of the emails he's your research is research is better and the emails you're writing are better than what we can get for $500,000. Like that, I think, is the power of these digital labor systems right. And then, as you alluded to, this is for VC outreach. But it's not a stretch of the imagination to think that maybe I have one of these running for the service side of my business.

Jesse Anglen: 46:51

Maybe I have one of these systems running for the other for a lot of different things Because at some point it just makes sense and leads. For me today not really an issue Because I can. You know if I pay 40 cents in inference, right?

Jesse Anglen: 47:10

to these LLMs and I've invested in the system to build it, and that wasn't, that was work. It was three weeks worth of work for a couple of developers to really put it together and have it work well, yeah, um, once I'm done building a system like that, I can just improve it forever, and there's no regression. If you hire an employee to do it, at some point they're going to have a fight with their girlfriend they're're going to get drunk.

Jesse Anglen: 47:31

They're going to show up. You're going to have to put them on a pit, take action, yep. Yep, yeah, all the things that happen with people and it's a drudge.

Tonya J. Long: 47:39

As you were telling the story. I'm thinking about these 21-year-olds who just came out of a $200,000 education, out of a $200,000 education, and they're stuck at a computer terminal all day looking for the same pieces of data for the same types of companies. I can't imagine how bored they are and no wonder they become disenchanted with what they call corporate work, because there's almost no creativity in what they're doing and you don't want to like graduate from Harvard and then like from Harvard and then like like be digging looking for okay, when was the last valuation? Okay, where'd the CEO go to school? Okay, you know, cause it. I mean, it's mindless.

Jesse Anglen: 48:25

Yeah.

Tonya J. Long: 48:26

So I didn't want to do it.

Jesse Anglen: 48:27

It looked like a giant waste of my time. I thought, man, this is going to take me six months to get through. It's going to take me six months to get through this list of stuff.

Tonya J. Long: 48:35

Did you blow through the whole list?

Jesse Anglen: 48:39

Are you plodding?

Tonya J. Long: 48:40

it.

Jesse Anglen: 48:41

Yeah, I am. I can't deal with that much volume because there is a human bottleneck right, because at some point they want to have a conversation with me. Yeah, that's right, because at some point, they want to have a conversation with me. I only have X amount of hours during the day that I can dedicate towards doing this.

Jesse Anglen: 48:53

But the other thing that I realized too is that part of the reason I had to slow it down was because in the first, I would say in the first hundred contacts that I made, there were so many interested parties in what it was that we were doing. Because I started at the highest, like the highest score probability right that it would, it just became a lot of work to do the due diligence and to answer the questions and all that stuff.

Jesse Anglen: 49:19

Yeah, and so I was overwhelmed with the work of fundraising rather than the lead generation of fundraising which is fine, that means it's gonna I'm. We're gonna get over it sooner yeah, and that's good news for me because, like I said, never have been a huge fan of fundraising.

Tonya J. Long: 49:35

Does this segue nicely into Ruh? Yes, here's the thing, and I feel I need to say this I'm not bringing you on here to advertise your business. You wouldn't come on here to advertise your business, but I think what you are doing is so fundamental to people starting to understand what the capabilities are going to look like. That's what we're, that's this conversation. I'm not guiding you, I'm guiding my audience.

Jesse Anglen: 49:58

Yeah, I can even help with that, in the sense that I will. I'll be the first to admit that Ruh is one of many, and there are a lot of platforms out there that I use even today myself that do similar things to what Ruh does. The reason that I'm building Ruh isn't. It's because I wanted something that took into account that people are trying to operate a business, like, for instance, if you go look at an agentic system. That is super helpful. I use it on a regular basis. Maybe every day would be Manus.

Jesse Anglen: 50:37

Yeah, oh, yeah, give a really quick blurb about Manus, because a lot of people might not have heard of Manus. Yes, so Manus is an agentic system. They have a bit of a different approach. They're using a single agent infrastructure, which means that it's one agent that does many things, so you can use multiple agents that have specific tasks. Or you can use one agent that does many things, so you can use multiple agents that have specific tasks, or you can use one agent that has many things that it does, and it's the one-to-many architecture and really you can do anything on it.

Jesse Anglen: 51:01

If you go on and say I want you to build me a list of investors that would be interested in this presentation, and then you go to sleep, you'll wake up in the morning with a list of investors that would be interested in your presentation. If you want to build a mobile app, you can ask it build me this mobile app. It'll build you the mobile app. It can do a lot of different stuff, so that's like an example of a platform that I use. That's an agentic system or a digital labor platform.

Tonya J. Long: 51:23

And it's fairly new. It's been commercialized. What? Three or five months, something like that.

Jesse Anglen: 51:29

That's possible. I don't know the timeline.

Tonya J. Long: 51:31

It's newer.

Jesse Anglen: 51:32

Sometimes I'm like man, this is really old and I look, and it was 19 days ago.

Tonya J. Long: 51:36

It's true, it's true. I remember looking at my first Manus demo, probably five or six months ago but we couldn't get in yet. It was just the CEO giving the overview of what it was going to do. It was remarkable, and I was on the wait list forever. Overview of what it was going to do. It was remarkable.

Jesse Anglen: 51:51

And I and I was on the wait list forever, and so here's the thing. Here's the thing about Ruh.

Tonya J. Long: 51:55

Tell us what Ruh spell it and tell us what the word Ruh means, cause this is my heart, yeah.

Jesse Anglen: 52:01

Yeah, so Ruh Ruh is a the word. It's from a very ancient language, so it might have roots in like Sanskrit or Arabic or kind of those languages, but it means like the essence of the human soul, so like the part of us that makes us human. And it's spelled R-U-H, at least in English, and so it's R-U-H. Dot A-I is what it is that we're building. And here's the thing If you told me, like for this VC outreach tool, for instance, if you said you know, I want to, I want to do that level of research, I could turn you into an orchestrator and I could show you all the different tools, like first go to perplexity and then do this prompt, and then, after you're done with that, I want you to go to deep research and I want you to do this prompt, or maybe use.

Jesse Anglen: 52:46

Google Gemini, because it'll find links, and then after that I want you to use crawl for AI. Pass it those links and then pull that information in, then take all of that information and give it to Gemini 2.5 Pro, because it's got a big context window and it'll shrink it down into a summary and then take that and pass it to another, to Claude Sonnet I think you're up to five tools. And with this prompt and it will do this could I could walk you through the process.

Jesse Anglen: 53:13

Five different applications involved and, in the case of the, like that VC outreach tool, that. I was that I was talking about. I think it's 38 different agents that are doing work, and when.

Jesse Anglen: 53:24

I say agent like one agent and even more tools, right, and. But I could teach you to orchestrate all of those agents and get the work done as a human orchestrator. And what I realized and this was a while ago is I was teaching all of my people to be orchestrators. Right, because it makes you more efficient. Like, even if I had to go through and do that, you probably get one email sent every hour, let's say, which is a huge reduction from one email sent every eight hours right so.

Jesse Anglen: 54:00

I'm saving myself eight hours, but it's still wildly inefficient, because if I build an agent orchestrator that orchestrates all of those, agents together tells them what to do, how to do it and does the orchestration side of it.

Jesse Anglen: 54:15

I can take a one-hour task that used to be an eight-hour task and I can turn it into an eight-minute task, and so what Ruh is Ruh is an operating system. Basically is the best way to think about it. Just like you have an operating system on your computer that allows you to run programs and you can actually start hooking the different functionality of your computer together to do more and more impressive things. It is a platform that allows people to do that, to build out that orchestration for real business work that they actually have to do. So, like in this case, it was build out a system to reach out to investors, because I don't want to have to do it, I just want to talk to people, because that's what I'm good at.

Jesse Anglen: 54:53

And so I built an agentic system that does that.

Jesse Anglen: 54:55

But I've got agentic systems that do all of the project management for the software development check all the JIRA tasks, like make sure that people have put descriptions in and timelines in and the level of effort in, and is the description that they put in actually descriptive of anything, or do I need to give them feedback?

Jesse Anglen: 55:17

And like those agents, yeah, are just constantly looking at all of the tasks that exist inside a software project and making sure that it's holding people accountable to following the process that we use and acting as a project manager. I've got we've got agents that do tons and tons of different things that make us efficient, and that's where Ruh comes in. Is that, I think the thing it has that is unique is that it acts as that operating system or that orchestration system that then allows you to create agentic systems that have it as a platform so people can see it, but I don't have to use this, as on the platform on the Internet, I can go to Slack and I can say hey, rue, here's another list of 500 VCs, can you please process this?

Jesse Anglen: 56:05

and set up email and set up appointments for me and I can speak to it in real language. Toss it a list of VCs on a spreadsheet and it'll run through all of them, and I can do that on Slack. I can send it an email. I can actually call it up on my phone and just say hey. In my Google Drive I have this list of VCs that I just added. Can you run through that list of VCs?

Jesse Anglen: 56:26

and try to set appointments with me for Ruh, and so we wanted to build something that allowed people to work with AI in the same way that they work with humans and so that it feels very natural. Right, because we've been doing this for a long time and I don't think people want a new user experience. They just want to be able to utilize AI with the same user experience they've always had.

Tonya J. Long: 56:49

I'm having fun lately because people around me are discovering vibe coding and they're losing their minds and I just smile Because they've been really busy and they've been heads down and these are technical people but they've been trying to get their product to MVP right. And one of my founders absolutely called me like just screaming, because he had been to a meetup and discovered lovable of all things, that's so oh, and he said lovable is lovable was fun.

Jesse Anglen: 57:20

I remember when I discovered lovable, that was six, eight months ago or something like that.

Tonya J. Long: 57:24

I've moved way past lovable at this point.

Jesse Anglen: 57:26

But I still use lovable on a regular in, in fact, my salespeople, when they're on a conversation with someone. They build lovable prototypes for clients while they're on the call with the client yeah, as a way to show them like is this what you're saying? It's a good experience, right yeah.

Tonya J. Long: 57:44

So let me ask then does Rue operate like lovable and cursor and these other vibe coding? Does Ruh operate like lovable and cursor and these other vibe coding Like? Does it simplify it so that someone with clear mindset, but not someone who writes Python every day, can use Ruh? Who's your intended audience?

Jesse Anglen: 58:02

level. So I would say it depends on what level people want to do stuff. So, like for the solopreneur, let's say, it can be as simple as you hop on Ruh and say hey, Ruh, my email inbox is a mess and I just I'm sick of dealing with all the garbage and not knowing what's important and what's not important. And so what I want you to do is I want you to take all of my email, I want you to divide it into the four quadrants that come from that sweet book urgent and important, not urgent and important, et cetera, et cetera. And I want you to organize it by folders. I want you to create drafts for all of the emails that you think. You can create a draft email back for me to look at. And then every single day, in fact twice a day, in Slack, I want you to send me a message with a triage report on my email. So you just talk to it, just like that.

Jesse Anglen: 58:55

And then you hit submit and Rue goes and builds the workflow and the agent in order to do that, and then you have an employee that is an email triage employee.

Jesse Anglen: 59:07

And on a daily basis. That email will go in or that employee will go in and do that to your email and if you ever need to modify it, you can. And so now you have a new employee that's working for you. Yep, so that would be on the simplest side of it. Simpler side of it. Or you can build, you can actually sit down with a real development team, that is vibe coding preferably, and build out a system that can do like this VC outreach thing.

Jesse Anglen: 59:31

You probably couldn't, it probably isn't sophisticated enough to build this whole like 38 agent system, right, but you can sit down with a team of people and work with Ruh and build the whole thing out and then you have this employee that would be your VC outreach email employee and it would just work for you and your company. Anytime you want to go raise money, you say sweet, here's, and then you go build your list building agent that you say, hey, I need to build a list of investors who are interested in AI products in the UK, and it goes out and does the research and builds a list. It passes it to this employee, emails them, it passes that to the follow-up employee who then follows up with them and it sets an appointment and then that passes it to the follow-up employee who then follows up with them and it sets an appointment and then that passes it to the scheduling employee.

Jesse Anglen: 1:00:14

That tells me that I've got calls with VCs that I have to go and hop on, and so you start stringing these employees together and these workflows together, really with models that have enough memory and intelligence to do the tasks and the tools to do them access to email, access to calendars, access to Zoom info, whatever it is they then start working as employees in your company? They just do it for almost no money 24 hours a day.

Tonya J. Long: 1:00:39

We're going to pause for a very quick station break. You are listening to KPCR 92.9 LP out of Los Gatos, so help me with this. I see all this. I live in this bubble, I have these conversations, but then I feed a list of 100 first and last names to ChatGPT and say alphabetize this for me by last name, and I get back a list of 68 people and they're loosely alphabetized but not even close to accurate and I lose my mind. So people talk about hallucinations. I think that that's a lot less than it was two years ago.

Jesse Anglen: 1:01:26

Yes. Although it's a big deal, it still happens.

Tonya J. Long: 1:01:29

The systems are still highly imperfect on what I consider just an infantile task. Take these hundred names and alphabetize them. So what can you say to people to give them trust in the quality of the work and the accuracy of the work? I've had systems, of course, because I'm a super user totally make up a list of names. I don't want to be emailing non-existent VCs using your VC outreach example. I don't want, and it does. It will still give you what it thinks you want to hear. Depending on the tool you're using, it's a higher risk. What's your answer?

Tonya J. Long: 1:02:04

to help people get past that hurdle.

Jesse Anglen: 1:02:06

Some of it just comes with. If, let's say, you're manually orchestrating and using these tools, yeah, what you will discover is that, like, for instance, chat, GPT tends to be sycophantic, in the sense that it wants to give you what you want, even if it can't.

Tonya J. Long: 1:02:18

Yes, yes, you're so smart so anytime you go. Right.

Jesse Anglen: 1:02:21

Anytime that you go to chat and it depends on the model Right.

Jesse Anglen: 1:02:25

So, if you go to chat ChatGPT 4.1, for instance, and you ask it to do a task, it will always successfully complete the task, but it will not always truthfully complete the task, but it will always be successful. And so if, for instance, if you tell it, find me, I want you to find me a thousand VCs, it's a bad example. Or let's say, I want you to find me a hundred VCs that would be interested in investing in Ruh, that all live in Bayview, idaho.

Tonya J. Long: 1:02:50

Okay.

Jesse Anglen: 1:02:54

Right interested in investing in Ruh that all live in Bayview Idaho. It'll say here's a list of 1,000 VCs interested in Ruh that all live in Bayview Idaho, and it's going to be wrong because there are zero VCs that live in Bayview Idaho. I know this for a fact because I live in Bayview, Idaho, and there just aren't any.

Jesse Anglen: 1:03:05

But if you go and give that same task to Claude Sonnet, for instance it will come back and say there are no VCs that live in Bayview, idaho. You're crazy. You need to go down to Silicon Valley somewhere Like what are you doing, trying to raise money in Bayview, idaho. And that is because Claude is not sycophantic. But let's say I want to write a blog article and I want it to sound really good.

Tonya J. Long: 1:03:31

Right, An opinion piece or something along those lines.

Jesse Anglen: 1:03:34

If I give it to Claude, it's going to sound factual and professional and all that. The writing's not going to be very good If I go give it to ChatGBT 4.1, it's going to be amazing. That's one small example of just trying.

Jesse Anglen: 1:03:47

Knowing yeah, knowing right, and so Ruh does not. Ruh has one proprietary model that we trained. It's about to have two because we've got another model that builds out workflows. Okay, but one of the things as an orchestration engine that allows you to orchestrate these agentic systems, instead of giving you access to chat ChatGPT we give you access to 400 different large language models. Now, for most people it's going to be very overwhelming, so it defaults to the ones that are going to generalize and do well on most tasks.

Jesse Anglen: 1:04:19

But if you're somebody who understands these systems and how to build them, you basically can just build for hallucination resistance, hallucination resistance. I build factual agents out of LLMs that don't hallucinate to double check that other LLMs aren't hallucinating inside my system and I'm correcting them.

Jesse Anglen: 1:04:40

So that's other things, I guess the other one, like in your specific example, I would never ask ChatGPT to do anything with a CSV. Instead, what I would do is I would tell it to write some Python code that ingested my CSV and then did the operation and then give it back to me. Right, because code always works the way that code is supposed to work. It will do a good writing code and so even just understanding that process of how to engage is a part of it, and we're trying to build as much of that as we can into Ruh, the back end, how to engage systems.

Jesse Anglen: 1:05:27

In fact, if you go do research on agent routers and how to pick like what LLM for what conversation?

Jesse Anglen: 1:05:34

there's a lot of really smart people that were actually borrowing their work. In that case, I think we stand on the shoulders of giants on how to actually choose large language models based on the tasks that you're doing. Because and this is just this is me being silly on some levels, but I don't have a subscription to chat ChatGPT and that's it right. I subscribe to every single major model, plus, I have ways to run all of the private models, because they all do things differently and sometimes I need things that some of them don't and I think that's where it gets overwhelming to people, because they'll come to me like I tried chat ChatGPT and so it didn't work.

Jesse Anglen: 1:06:15

Gosh, of course it didn't work for that task you should have been using gemini 2.5 pro the 6.5 edition, not the 5.6 edition, because it does the best job at that task, because how's a normal person supposed to know that?

Tonya J. Long: 1:06:27

and I don't want the normal people living in this bubble. They shouldn't have to, they shouldn't have to know the difference and the fact that the tool can is where we're headed. You said overwhelmed and it made me think. So many people are still overwhelmed by this conversation, by how we're describing the opportunity. Ceos, where would you encourage them to start? Because I think the ones who've listened know this is where we're going. I can't use the word accept. They understand where we're going, but they're really reluctant to start because of all the implications. What is your simplest advice for how to consider starting on this agentic path?

Jesse Anglen: 1:07:14

Although I did it a long time ago with models that weren't as good. I always just suggest that people start where I started. Pick one small thing that will not have a huge impact on your company if it doesn't go well.

Jesse Anglen: 1:07:26

Implement it and start using it and see what kind of an impact it makes. I think it really does just boil down to taking that one. There was a guy I was talking to the other day. He's I don't know where to start and I said, dude, just start, add an assistant into your email that writes drafts for you.

Tonya J. Long: 1:07:45

and organizes your email.

Jesse Anglen: 1:07:46

Start there. Don't do something crazy. Just start there and what'll happen is in about two and a half three weeks.

Jesse Anglen: 1:07:54

it's going to be impossible for you to imagine life without it because, it's going to save you so much work and then, if you really want to see the impact, turn it off and go back to doing it the way you used to do it and you'll be like, huh, that sucks, and so usually that's why I tell people just start somewhere simple. Generally speaking, when we work with clients from on the service side of things, where we build out agentic systems, like very few people come to us and want to add a hundred AI agents into their company, right, like usually they'll say things like I want to add a research agent for my salespeople so that, prior to them going on a call, we can research the prospect, understand their pain points and build a specific PowerPoint presentation for them.

Tonya J. Long: 1:08:41

Yeah, for instance. Yeah, something super clean, super easy and super valuable for them to go into that call with the right mindset.

Jesse Anglen: 1:08:49

Yeah, and then you build that and you watch and see what happens. You watch your KPIs and you go oh, look like our close rate jumped by 3%. Like overall, that's a 3% extra profit for this year all because we implemented this one system that costs us one tenth as much as one of our salespeople.

Tonya J. Long: 1:09:07

Yeah.

Jesse Anglen: 1:09:07

Like that was worth it, and so then you start looking at other ways to augment other people on your team. Ultimately, it boils down to this Human, like human, value creation. I'm going to use a dumb example, but I think it's a really visual, good example. If you if on a construction site, you need to move dirt from one place to another, right, or you need to dig a hole which is a common thing, right. You build a house, you have to dig it out for the basement.

Jesse Anglen: 1:09:36

People aren't just moving the dirt for no reason, right, like, generally speaking, the reason that you are moving the dirt is so that you can pour the walls for a foundation, or because you need to put in drainage, or because of something. Right, the act of moving dirt is in itself, worthless, completely 100% worthless, non-valuable work. Right, it is the end result. Currently, across millions and millions of companies worldwide, there are a bunch of people moving dirt, and the reason that they're moving dirt is because there is hope that at the end of that dirt moving task, they will do something valuable put in a foundation, which, once again, worthless, like, no one needs a foundation, it doesn't matter. The reason they do that is so they can put in the floor right, which is also worthless, because no one needs a floor, which the reason they do that is, so you can put in walls, which are worthless because you don't need walls, you need siding and

Jesse Anglen: 1:10:32

insulation, because, at the end of the day, the thing that has value is a house, right? And when you start thinking about how much your people do, that is worthless. Like ie, they are moving dirt, and that's the reason I use that portion of the example to try to make it as vivid as possible. You are literally moving dirt. Nothing could be more worthless than moving dirt. You're doing that because you have this plan that once you're done with this, all of this processing that you do, the end result is going to be something that is much more valuable than one of its individual pieces. And, like for me, the place that I started was what people do I have in my company that are moving dirt. And can I build something that moves the dirt for them? Right, because it's even if you take the analogy further, it's even worse than that that a lot of companies have people moving dirt with a shovel and a bucket Right, and they're not even using an excavator. They're not even using a wheelbarrow.

Tonya J. Long: 1:11:34

Sometimes they're not even using shuffles right, like they're just using their hands.

Jesse Anglen: 1:11:38

And because we have these very antiquated systems, imagine that you don't even have to move dirt. I mean like if building a house was as simple as walking up on a piece of property and going man you know what, right there it looks amazing. This design is going to be great. I want this view. I want these kinds of counters. I want all this stuff. You go to sleep the next day. You wake up there's a house there, it's there, poof.

Jesse Anglen: 1:12:02

Right, that is what AI does for businesses, because I can say I want to have a bunch of meetings with VCs interested in the company I'm raising money for, here's all the information you need to know about it. And then I can go to sleep and when I wake up the next morning I can have six appointments on my calendar for that week, that's.

Tonya J. Long: 1:12:22

I mean, that's how far this goes. It doesn't just do the research, but it has agency to take the actions, take the autonomous action to go ahead and set those up on the calendar for you.

Jesse Anglen: 1:12:36

Yeah, and then the value creation that happens is the processing for that value creation. It just no longer has to happen. Now there are some steps of building a house you probably don't want to outsource. Maybe the electrical is really important and you want people to look at that. There's a reason. People do inspections, Even in the digging of the dirt. Sometimes it's important to have people there to make sure things are going right. But the point that I try to make to people is that inside your company right now, probably 80% of what you do is a waste of time. It actually is just a means to an end. It is moving dirt.

Tonya J. Long: 1:13:19

That's why employees are so dissatisfied.

Jesse Anglen: 1:13:23

Yeah, and some employees aren't. Some people are happy moving dirt. I used to move dirt for a living. When I was younger I went and worked on construction crews. I've moved a lot of dirt in my life. The truth is, I doubt you can find somebody, even in the construction world, where, if you said, hey, listen, if from now on all the dirt was always moved when you showed up, would you be okay with it?

Jesse Anglen: 1:13:42

They'd be like man, that sounds amazing, because they want to go and build the forms and they want to do all the other stuff right, and that's what I encourage people to do is find the dirt Like where's the dirt that needs to be moved and outsource that to an AI. No one wants to do it anyways. It's a miserable job. It's like insulation. No one wants to do insulation. It's terrible. Outsource that to an AI. Outsource as much as you can to an AI and then take your very best people your best architects, your best finished carpenters, your best roofers, your best siters, your best landscapers, your best dirt movers and give them access to these tools and you will make them so much better than they are today.

Jesse Anglen: 1:14:21

The quality of the work that they do will increase exponentially. Their enjoyment of their job and their happiness will increase exponentially. The end product and the value that you deliver will be exponentially less expensive and therefore fostering this abundance, this abundance world that we could potentially have with AI, and you can be a part of something amazing that's usually what I tell people.

Tonya J. Long: 1:14:49

So you've been really good about seeing the future. You were 14 and said this school thing is not my jam. And then you jumped into Bitcoin, when we still have a lot of people, myself included, that are not on the Bitcoin train, even though I know.

Jesse Anglen: 1:15:08

But you know it's a whole other conversation. You're just like watching the price and wishing that you could have gotten it in 2010?

Tonya J. Long: 1:15:11

I just like my friends calling me up and saying hey, Tonya, I bought XRP and it doubled, thanks, and I'm like, because I needed to have it double for me. But they take action. I don't so, but you've been like, you've had a crystal ball into the future. So, as we start to wrap, up what is a year from now for you? What do you think things look like? Don't let adoption gate your answer, because adoption is a huge issue.

Jesse Anglen: 1:15:45

I won't talk about adoption. I never think about adoption. It's a waste of time to think about it. Things will get adopted or they won't, I don't care. I just I want to know what's possible.

Tonya J. Long: 1:15:53

I love it.

Jesse Anglen: 1:15:54

I will say I've been really wrong on the AI stuff, more wrong than I've been about anything in my life.

Tonya J. Long: 1:16:01

Because it moved faster than you anticipated Just yes.

Jesse Anglen: 1:16:05

Yeah. I get that and when I say that two years ago I anticipated that we would be where we are today in five years. And so it was less than half. It took less than half the time to get to where we are today. So I would take everything I say with a grain of salt, and I will also say people thought I was insane when I said Timing is different from accuracy yes.

Tonya J. Long: 1:16:27

Right, yes, yeah.

Jesse Anglen: 1:16:31

So I think what's going to happen is this is going to be the decade of intelligence and agency. We'll call it.

Tonya J. Long: 1:16:37

You're talking about a decade. I am shocked.

Jesse Anglen: 1:16:39

Digital labor. I think it will take a decade to get to the end of where all value creation and when I say all, I mean all value creation, whether that be a diagnosis for a disease, a new medication, the creation of a book or a movie, the creation of an application, I think all value creation could be given to AI, and it will be able to do it at the same level as the majority of human beings Not all, but the majority of human beings. I think that we'll live in a world where there is no such thing as a web app or like an app on your phone.

Tonya J. Long: 1:17:19

Yeah.

Jesse Anglen: 1:17:21

I think that in the future, you're going to just tell your phone what it is that you want out of your life. I want to wake up in the morning at 5 am. I want to build these habits. I need to manage my calendar in this way. I want to see my emails like this. I want to be able to send messages to my friends. In this way, I think you'll be able to tell your phone what it is, how you want to live your life and what you want to do. Your phone what it is that you, how you want to live your life and what you want to do, and it will build you an operating system and applications for you to live your life that way. And when you don't like it, you just tell it to make adjustments and it will do it.

Jesse Anglen: 1:17:49

I mean, you're just saying all programs and applications are going to look like that, whereas, man, I don't like. I don't like how you have the button over there. That's oh, where would you like it? Well, I'd like it over here. It makes more sense to me. Okay, and then there you go. Everyone will have their own personalized applications that are running on their own machines, like I. I think that in. I think that people will work if they want to. I think that a lot of people will work.

Tonya J. Long: 1:18:13

I will be working you know, in a decade. Even if I don't have to, I love to work.

Jesse Anglen: 1:18:17

Yeah, I love to be a part of value creation and I think that the tools that we'll have access to to do that are going to be insane. You're not going to be hiring developers. You're not going to be hiring accountants. You're not going to be hiring graphics designers. What you're going to do is, I think, that human beings are going to be vision casters saying this is the thing that I want, this is the thing that needs to happen.

Tonya J. Long: 1:18:43

This is the work that needs to get done.

Jesse Anglen: 1:18:45

And then they're going to be curators, right? Not creators, because right now, human beings are the creators of value, it's true.

Tonya J. Long: 1:18:51

But there's a lot of effort in that.

Jesse Anglen: 1:18:53

Yep, and I think that there will come a time, like in the house analogy, where, instead of creating, you curate the house. After it's built, you walk through it and you say I don't like this color of trim, I don't paint.

Tonya J. Long: 1:19:03

I don't do counters.

Jesse Anglen: 1:19:04

I think we need more outlets over here. I don't like the carpet. I want an extra bathroom over here. The roof line's too steep.

Jesse Anglen: 1:19:10

Whatever, you curate it and then the AI goes back in Revision, cast To your point, yes, and we'll be the creators of whatever it is that we want to be creators of, which I think is going to probably sit in the arts and entertainment, like people are going to write books, people are going to paint pictures, people are going to create movies and movie scripts, like those really human things, but everything else that is just noise, that just gets in the way.

Jesse Anglen: 1:19:38

I think all that's going to get delegated to AI in the next decade and agentic systems that are doing things for us get delegated to AI in the next decade and agentic systems that are doing things for us. I don't think we're going to use computers the same way like, in the sense that I think the mouse and keyboard are going to disappear entirely. We're going to have an assistant in our computer that understands our goals, knows what it is that we're trying to do, and our work becomes more like the collaboration with an external intelligence that you're delegating your vision to and it's doing the things that needs to happen. So that's the world that I see being created and I think it'll happen in 10 years. Here's I heard something crazy Globally, human beings pay other human beings $52 trillion a year to do work of, and specifically to do, knowledge work.

Jesse Anglen: 1:20:23

Not all work, just knowledge work. So that's not building houses and this other stuff, just knowledge work. I read a paper recently that said that if ai doesn't improve at all from this day forward, of that $52 trillion worth of knowledge work, between $18 and $22 trillion worth of it could be delegated to AI today and have the result be better than the humans that are currently doing it 40% Wow.

Jesse Anglen: 1:20:59

Yeah, that's today. That's no improvements, no, nothing. And so, with that being the case, it will happen, it just will, and that paper was written like a month ago. The truth is, that number probably increases by a trillion or two trillion dollars every month, and so very soon it will be 100% as possible, and then the only thing that's going to be stopping it will just be us slowing down the process because we're uncomfortable with what's happening. Right, we don't feel good about the people losing their jobs. Maybe we're even in a crisis.

Jesse Anglen: 1:21:31

I don't know what happens if you lay off every single knowledge worker on planet Earth today, but you'd have a global crisis that would be far worse than anything humanity's ever experienced. From a jobs perspective and poverty perspective, it would be a nightmare, and so maybe we slow it down just because of that.

Jesse Anglen: 1:21:51

But if you don't think about those things, and you think about what is possible, like value creation becomes free, which means that we live in a world of abundance, far more than anything that humanity has ever experienced, and scarcity becomes something that is just. You don't even you don't buy programs anymore, you don't. I think in theory, you could live in a world where you don't pay for anything, where everything that the cost to create value is so inexpensive that you can do it for free, especially on the intellectual side of things. Maybe not on the physical side Robotics, that's a whole nother thing. I think that'll take longer.

Tonya J. Long: 1:22:26

I think that'll take longer. I think we're 20 years away on that, but I can be wrong. Maybe we're 10 years away. I'm surprised you're not more bullish on robotics. I'm pretty bullish on robotics.

Jesse Anglen: 1:22:31

I might just be stupid on robotics, or ignorant, which is possible. I would not put it past me that I'm ignorant and stupid on the robotics side of things. There's a lot of things I'm ignorant and stupid on. On the robotic side of things there's a lot of things ignorant and stupid on actually, just simply because I have not ever looked into it.

Jesse Anglen: 1:22:46

I paid this much attention to it because I'm so focused on the agentic side of things, yeah I think that when robotic, when robotics and agent and the agentic world cross paths, I will have to become an expert and I have been told by some people that will happen this year or possibly next and and so I will, if we do this podcast let's say 18 months from now. I might know more.

Tonya J. Long: 1:23:08

Yeah, oh, I suspect I loved what you shared about what you see in the next year, but I suspect you are wildly wrong. In an unimaginable I could not have forecasted this level of growth and development way and all of us for making things happen.

Jesse Anglen: 1:23:32

I was told when I first wanted to build Ruh it was two years ago I said, hey, let's build this. And I was told by my CTO. He said number one the level of expertise. And because of the technology that would need to be created, the level of expertise that we'd have to hire in order to do this is makes it unfeasible.

Tonya J. Long: 1:23:50

Like I don't think we can do it.

Jesse Anglen: 1:23:52

And even if we had that team, it would take us 10 years to build what it is that you're talking about. And I went, huh, okay, so we're probably not going to build this now. So we built some other stuff. When him and I talked five months ago, I said, hey, now I want to build it. And he said, okay, I'll have it for you in four months. So the estimate from two years ago was nine years and a bunch of people we'd have to hire and a bunch of technology we'd have to create.

Jesse Anglen: 1:24:18

So two years later, we were able to build the entire system in five months. That shows the level of growth that the world is currently experiencing, and people talk about it slowing down. It's not slowing down. It just isn't Like it's. If anything, it's speeding up, but it certainly isn't slowing down and it's definitely going the same speed, and so the world's changing. I'm very excited for it. I hope that humanity does good things with this technology.

Tonya J. Long: 1:24:46

Yeah, and just to plant a seed, because I said this at a panel I did the other night. We think like this, we love this, this drives us, this really is our passion and purpose. There are 130 million people in the US who still don't read beyond a sixth grade level and that terrifies me. When people ask me what keeps me up at night, it's, you know, it's the people I grew up with, that you know that might fall into that bucket, but I don't think that we're going to magically teach 50-year-olds who don't have beyond a sixth grade level operating capacity. I don't think we a sixth grade level operating capacity. I don't think we're just going to teach them to read, but I think we're going to bring life to them in a simplified way that lets them engage. So that's my encouragement to all the super builders like you that we have to build technology that enables all of us, not just the ones of us who love the technology. Yeah.

Jesse Anglen: 1:25:44

It'll start more complicated and it'll get simpler and simpler.

Tonya J. Long: 1:25:47

Already has, it already has. Yeah, yeah, yeah, good.

Jesse Anglen: 1:25:52

And that trend will continue. I think it's like computers, If you remember computers in the 80s, right In the early 80s, before I was born.

Tonya J. Long: 1:25:59

I carried a sewing. It was like a sewing machine, right it was like an 18 pound. I hauled it up and down the hill. Capitol Hill in Tennessee. I was an auditor. It was yeah, and there was a book.

Jesse Anglen: 1:26:12

There was a book that came with it. It was like an inch and a half, maybe two inches thick of like all the things you had to know for how to use it, cause it didn't even have a mouse. That's right, there was no UI there. I bet you could have taken a two-year college class on how to use a computer. Yeah, oh yeah. And if you look today, I can give my phone, which is a computer, to a three-year-old. That's right and they can operate it just fine.

Tonya J. Long: 1:26:40

As you roll their eyes. Just fine, they can do a lot more than we want them to.

Jesse Anglen: 1:26:50

Yeah maybe even better than people.

Tonya J. Long: 1:26:52

Ai will do the same thing over the course of the next decade or two, where it'll become so easy to use her way to a new place. You know, in a town nearby there were all kinds, and so my mama grew into it. Lots of grandparents are getting on FaceTime with their grandkids across the country. I think people that aren't inclined to reach for technology are being presented with technology. That's why I'm very excited to see what Johnny Ives brings to OpenAI.

Jesse Anglen: 1:27:23

Right, it's going to be very interesting. It will be very interesting as one of the most visionary technical I would say not technical he's like a user experience guru of some sort. He was very brilliant. I do wonder, though, with him, how much of his skill set was implementing the visions of somebody like Steve.

Tonya J. Long: 1:27:45

Jobs.

Jesse Anglen: 1:27:45

We will know Because if you look at what Apple has come out with since Steve Jobs died, they have done very little innovation. I mean they've done some cool software stuff and things like that, but he was always like once every year, two years, not an innovation. And he was yeah. I mean, steve would come out and be like hey, look at this thing that we did. That doesn't even seem possible.

Jesse Anglen: 1:28:08

It was always like magic and I don't think that we have someone really like that on planet Earth at the moment that I you know and I don't know that Ives is that guy, johnny Ives you know, and his partnership with Sam.

Tonya J. Long: 1:28:21

you know people from different ways.

Jesse Anglen: 1:28:23

I think he could make it, though I think if somebody said here's the vision for a future that looks way different, where you put a computer in your pocket. I think he is the guy to go and say, okay, I can get behind that and make that work. I hope that is what is happening with their partnership, because I think it could be really cool. What is happening with their partnership because I think it could be really cool.

Tonya J. Long: 1:28:43

And that kind of development will then trigger all the things that come to us to then build with, build on, build for Right.

Jesse Anglen: 1:28:55

Yeah.

Tonya J. Long: 1:28:55

It will be a sea change of activity, oh 100% I'm not waiting 18 months to bring you back.

Jesse Anglen: 1:29:01

Yeah, Okay, I'll come talk to you back. Yeah, okay, I'll come talk to you whenever. We'll have fun conversations.

Tonya J. Long: 1:29:07

I do have to go today, though.

Jesse Anglen: 1:29:08

I'm about out of time. I really appreciate you letting me come and jibber-jabber for however long it's been. This has been more fun than I can imagine Two hours.

Tonya J. Long: 1:29:17

No, it's all good. You know, the hard part now is editing this. Yes, you know the the hard part now is editing this too. Yes, I don't want to throw anything away, it's all going to be good. So how can people not get in touch with you? But how can people see what you're doing? And and can people experiment with rue? If not, how? How long before they could? Um?

Jesse Anglen: 1:29:37

yeah, so there's an internal beta he wants. If someone wanted to experiment in a serious way, like they're a business and they say hey like I really want to implement this, then I make it available. I'm working with several businesses right now. We're implementing workflows. We're basically doing what I would call a closed beta.

Tonya J. Long: 1:29:52

Yeah, yeah.

Jesse Anglen: 1:29:53

The platform itself. People are going to be able to sign up and start paying for stuff. It should be really in the next few days. Even there are people that have been testing it like an internal beta just individual users, solopreneurs, friends of mine, people. But if they go to Ruh. ai they can schedule an appointment. I'll show up on that call for a demo and kind of show them what it can do, figure out what they want. Or people can find me If you go Google me. There's my phone number's online.

Tonya J. Long: 1:30:22

I think even oh jeez, no, do not call Jesse Anglin. No one. Can you believe that? No, do not call him. Do not text him and say you have a great idea to add to his portfolio. Do not, do not.

Jesse Anglen: 1:30:34

Or do it's fine, but they can, they can. He speaks a lot. You, they can find you on.

Tonya J. Long: 1:30:39

LinkedIn yes.

Jesse Anglen: 1:30:41

Yes, linkedin yes, yeah. Yeah, honestly, if you go and Google my name and like Jesse Anglin, rapid Innovation, you'll find 65 different ways to get ahold of me.

Tonya J. Long: 1:30:51

Yeah, yeah so. But, jesse Anglin, a-n-g-l-e-n and I'll put some of those in the show notes and I look forward to seeing you again, maybe eight or nine months, maybe. End of year, first of next year, would be a good time to circle back, and next time I want you to play that Ovation guitar behind you, something small for our group. I grew up in Nashville, so Ovation was the upgrade when you really cared about bright sound.

Jesse Anglen: 1:31:21

Yeah, I love what and specifically that ovation. I've never been a huge fan of ovation sounds compared to some of the other guitars I've had, like Taylor's and Martin's and things like that, but that particular ovation I just I it was at a pawn shop and I went and played it. And it sounds like a it just it's the nicest sounding ovation I've ever heard for a thin body, right.

Tonya J. Long: 1:31:46

It doesn't. It's not the big body ovation, it's the thin body.

Jesse Anglen: 1:31:48

It just sounds really nice, and so I picked it up and it's now my day-to-day. It's now my day-to-day player. I love it. Whenever I'm stressed out, I keep it there so I can sit back and mess around with it. I love it back and mess around with it.

Tonya J. Long: 1:32:01

I love it. Excellent times, thank you. Thank you so much for this time. It's so valuable. What you've shared, I think, is going to impact or help a lot of people see their way through to the vision that you have. So thank you for being here. Any last statement before I go Thanks for having me.

Jesse Anglen: 1:32:17

Okay, I got nothing else.

Tonya J. Long: 1:32:19

It was fun chatting with you and I'm glad that we could do this.

Jesse Anglen: 1:32:22

We've had a lot of conversations not on the air that were very fun, and it was fun to have one that we can share with other people. I hope it's beneficial and people get something out of it, which I think they will. I have every confidence. I appreciate you having me on.

Tonya J. Long: 1:32:35

Yeah, we'll do this again, Jesse. Thanks so much Everyone. This has been Jesse, england and Tonya Long. On RESET with Tonya and we appreciate your time and we hope that we're part of your journey as we all look to our transitions, as we do more, love more and learn more. Everyone, have a wonderful day, take care Goodbye. This is Tonya Long. Thanks for joining us today on Pirate Cat Radio 92.9 LP, kpcr out of Los Gatos and KMRT LP 101.9 out of Santa Cruz.