Tonya J. Long: 0:07

Welcome home, friends. I'm Tonya Long, and this is RESET, where purpose meets possibility. Each week, we share conversations with thought leaders, innovators and the dreamers and doers who are reshaping the future of work, technology, longevity and purpose. Whether you're navigating AI's impact, reimagining your career or searching for deeper meaning, you're in the right place. So settle in, open your mind and let's explore what happens when purpose meets possibility. Hello everyone, and welcome to RESET where purpose meets possibility. So what happens when a corporate project manager trade billion-dollar implementations for a mission to help small businesses thrive? Well, let's talk about it. Today.

Tonya J. Long: 1:05

On this episode of RESET, we explore the power of small, intentional changes with Lisa Talbot, my new friend and the founder of True North PM Solutions. From managing corporate transformations to helping entrepreneurs streamline their operations, Lisa's journey shows how technical expertise can be re-imagined to serve a deeper purpose. So join us for an inspiring and I think it will be fun conversation about finding your true north, about the impact of small changes and how corporate experience can be transformed into meaningful entrepreneurship. So, whether you're feeling stuck in a corporate role or seeking ways to grow your small business, I think Lisa's story offers practical wisdom for navigating change while staying true to your values. Lisa, welcome. I am so excited to have you here. The founder of True North, what a great name. You have like 15 plus years of corporate project management expertise, and what I love is it's across all verticals. You've worked at agriculture, insurance, nonprofits, major conglomerates like Walmart. You bring technical acumen and human understanding to process improvement. Tell me what it's like working with smaller businesses after you've spent so much time working on large projects.

Lisa Talbot: 2:41

Yeah, thanks, tanya, thanks for having me here today.

Lisa Talbot: 2:43

I'm really excited about our conversation and there's a lot to be learned from big corporations to small businesses and there's there's been a lot of carryover that I didn't anticipate from from kind of that corporate life to my own fur, life to my own fur, and I'm a lifelong learner and it's been really bringing me joy to continue to learn about and navigate these small businesses while still having the tools that I gained in corporate America and helping small businesses that wouldn't have had this viewpoint or have acumen that I've been able to bring to them to really have them focused on what brought them to their business to begin with. You know a lot of people go into business not thinking they need to know IT, which in today's world probably you can't get away from systems and computers, and so they get really boggled and frustrated and burnt out having to navigate that space. And so it feels good when I can come in and kind of take that burden off of their shoulders and have them really focus on why they got into business in the first place.

Tonya J. Long: 4:08

I love it. I appreciate that what you do allows them to operate inside their zones of genius, right? Someone who started a business you know most often is passionate about what they're doing, but there are so many things beyond our passions that it takes to make a business run that it back oh yeah is, is and and you know, I remember I mean I'm pretty good with tech and I'm pretty good with visuals.

Tonya J. Long: 4:34

But I remember breaking me into tears when I was trying to do like one of my first websites because I was just trying to move an image a quarter of an inch, you know, to get it off the edge of the screen and I spent an hour doing it and I've scrapbooked and I've launched hundreds of products and I couldn't move the image and I thought I will never get this hour back and all the research I have done to figure that out will never be knowledge I will apply again. That's. One of my challenges is I'm a do-it-yourself farm girl, so I feel challenged in paying for other people's time when it's taken out of my grocery or shoe money.

Tonya J. Long: 5:17

So hats off to you for helping find those smaller businesses without the expertise. You've talked about how there's so much. You use the word carryover and I like that because there really is. The largest businesses have learned so much. You were doing, I think, like multi-million dollar implementations. So, given that you've worked with by several small companies, I'm curious what first helped you recognize the need for change with yourself after 15 years of working in corporate? What? What led to the change?

Lisa Talbot: 6:01

yeah, I think it's um. You know, I, I think it was. It was happening behind the scenes and I didn't know it. If I was to, like you know, 20 hindsight is 2020. And so I think it was really, you know, dropping my daughter off at daycare and crying all the way into the office and then spending 15 minutes in the bathroom trying to get myself presentable to get to work.

Lisa Talbot: 6:30

That really was the change, that this, and I really felt like there was only two pathways there was a corporate pathway and there was a stay at home mom pathway, and I didn't feel like I'd sit in either one of those pathways pathway, and I didn't feel like I'd sit in either one of those pathways. And but it took me, you know, five years to understand that I could create my own pathway, and or I could, you know, it's not even my own pathway. Millions of people have done this, you know, before me have created, you know, their own businesses or their own way of, you know, making money and supporting their family, and but I think it just took me some time. You know, have risk management right. As a project manager, I evaluate all the risks and I look at it from a different, a different lens.

Lisa Talbot: 7:17

And so I think it was, you know, probably just in the last year or two, that I said like I had been thinking about all the risks of doing it, and I thought what is the risk of not doing it? You know?

Lisa Talbot: 7:30

which really was like the, the change. That was like, if I don't do this, if I go in one of these two paths, I wouldn't be really true to myself and I wouldn't be showing up as the person and the mom and the wife that I really wanted to be. And so that was kind of the moment that I thought, ok, how can I, how can I carve this own pathway to for myself? And and that brings me joy and I think that's probably been the surprise piece in my risk management it wasn't ever about joy, right, it was about what could I do, what could I make money at, and so I ended up adding what do I enjoy doing, what am I good at and what can I make money? And that was where kind of the Venn diagram came together and what I've been moving forward with since.

Tonya J. Long: 8:29

I don't want to minimize what you've done, but you're right that I think you said millions of people have made this transition, but I think there are tens of millions more who want to make the transition and will be in the coming years. You know, you and I spoke in a separate conversation about the impact of AI on the workforce, and that's actually why I have this podcast, because I think there are changes in the workforce paradigm coming for all of us and I want people to get comfortable with it, to get comfortable with change, to know they can do it. So you're actually the perfect guest because you already made that transition and you can help other people understand that it is. While scary and you know uncertainty is harder than tough times, lots of times but you can help people understand that it's doable in a very relatable way. You've been in this five years now, I think. So what? What do you know now that you wish you had understood sooner, before you made the transition?

Lisa Talbot: 9:38

Yeah, I think. Um, so my firm's been open for just a year. So it took me about five years to figure out what I needed to do. Since my daughter, since that crying moment in the car yes, yes, a letter to my younger self would be that there's really no right or wrong way to do it. Like I felt like I was doing all the right things, you know, like I was going up the corporate ladder, I was, you know, able to get on board. You know, I felt like I was doing all the right things, but I didn't feel right. And I feel like, if I would have known that previously, that I should do more what feels good versus what I think should be done, I probably would have landed in a different spot.

Lisa Talbot: 10:23

You know, now, but, and then, maybe, having the confidence, I still, you know, have that imposter syndrome that is, like you know, am I going to get another client? Am I gonna, you know, am I gonna transform their work and they're going to be proud of the work that I did? You know a lot of imposter syndrome that I still battle today, but it's just those, like you know, small iterative steps that I can take myself, like through. You know, it's kind of what my firm is about is just making small changes and I try to do that personally as well. As you know, what is one step that I can do today? Maybe find a client, you know, maybe to have that, you know, imposter syndrome kind of go away. So it's, it's iterative. So I, I think other people could definitely start small and you know, if they're feeling stuck is to.

Lisa Talbot: 11:23

You know, mindset is a lot of what I think I just talked about with my confidence and my imposter syndrome. And then, you know, try experiments. You know, do you like doing a different project? Can you get a nice, do a class in it? Can you? You know, while you're in your current job, you know, so you don't have to do, do this huge like burn, burn what you're doing right now. Down to the ground, you can kind of experiment and be iterative on it and say I'm gonna learn a new, I'm gonna learn a new skill or get a certificate, or maybe I'm gonna do a side hustle, maybe I'm gonna you see if my passion really is marketable.

Tonya J. Long: 12:07

So I think it's doable, I think it's just having the confidence and maybe just like baby steps, to see if you can. You know if that income can now take over, for you know your main income.

Lisa Talbot: 12:25

There's a, there's an old adage about change is the only constant.

Tonya J. Long: 12:27

Yeah, and I think that we all academically understand that's true, yet we resist it and I think so many people. They know better but they see change as permanent. You know if I do.

Tonya J. Long: 12:44

X then I'm going to be stuck with X. So I can't, I just can't, you know, I just can't take that leap when it's not a leap to your point, it's an experiment, it's a tiny step, it's evaluating whether something else works, and so I think your words are wise, not to like wrap so much around um the change, just try new things. Um, I know, in our corporate work, um, that's not something that's taught. Often we, we talk about failing fast, but that's garbage.

Tonya J. Long: 13:21

Or just succeed fast, or else, you know, nobody believes that you get to fail fast, and I've, and I've worked for wonderful leaders who still weren't very patient with the failing. They weren't very like oh, you know, we figured out that doesn't work. Uh, I've never, you know, and I've always kept that in mind when I'm leading program level work, because you know you do need to lean into things that are difficult or unusual in order to make headway on things that are remarkable, and sometimes those aren't meant to work, but you learn from them and bring that into play elsewhere. Um, are there any lessons from corporate that you've had to push back and battle? Because working with smaller businesses is is is a different, it's a different mindset, it's a different approach.

Lisa Talbot: 14:16

It is different, it's a different mindset, it's a different approach, but there's um, it's almost like it's just smaller, really right. It's almost like it's just smaller, really right, like there's a lot of things that small businesses and corporates have in common, it's just the scale is much smaller. You know, small businesses have done awesome work to get themselves here. You know like they understand their business inside and out and and so, but they also understand there's a pain point, but it is so narrow focused that they don't understand what's like upstream and downstream from that pain point and I think from corporate, that was very similar, right, you change one thing, one division changes one thing and they don't realize that it actually impacts.

Lisa Talbot: 15:05

You know all these other divisions that they don't even speak to, right? So that's my life. So there's a lot of those pieces that you could relate right back into small businesses or nonprofits and it's just on a smaller scale of what we're dealing with. And so I definitely continue to learn and grow and also I'm like, oh yeah, I remember doing that in corporate that one time, like that was hard but we worked through it, and so that can kind of give me the confidence that I need in the small business to say hey, I know this is hard, and I think the other thing you were mentioning too is just like change is inevitable.

Lisa Talbot: 15:53

But I think it's hard when you're making decisions too, of like if I make this decision, I have to stick with it, right. It's like no, you don't just stick with it. Actually, you can change it at any point, and I've had to learn that even now, every time I make a decision, I have it's like the weight of the world is on that decision, and then I think, oh, I mean, if it goes wrong or if it goes sideways, I can always come back and make a different decision and see if that works. Or maybe the timing is different and that same decision works better now.

Tonya J. Long: 16:24

That is so wise. In my work leading leaders and in my work in corporate, what I saw was that indecision was the greatest failure inside company leadership. It wasn't executing poorly. I know, because I've sat in the chair, that those decisions all have consequences and impacts. There's going to be real people impacted and real people not happy. On both sides of the decision just sat on things because of the fear of the impact of what those decisions meant to the business. And I think it's a much bigger flaw to not make a decision, because when the entire company's kind of being held hostage trying to decide how we're going to restructuring is a lot of what I've been involved with. So so those decisions are consequential and difficult, but having having thousands of people kind of waiting for a shoe to drop paralyzes your entire company and so I want to go back to that imposter syndrome thing that you mentioned.

Tonya J. Long: 17:44

You know people have started saying for two years now they've been saying that's not the right words. Fine People have been saying I don't. I've seen very fierce women say I don't understand imposter syndrome. I've never had imposter syndrome. That's well and fine. Good for them.

Tonya J. Long: 18:02

I think that a lot of people imposter syndrome is as simple as I've not been here before, I've not done this in quite this situation before and I care about the impact of what I create, and so I hesitate and I question you know, should I be doing this? Should I be doing this? I think we have to as leaders. I can imagine you coming from a corporate mindset into a smaller business mindset and we want to be careful to help our clients avoid imposter syndrome. You know, when I work with smaller clients, having been in, you know five, six, five, six, seven billion dollar companies I don't want to lead with. I know it all because I've been in multi-billion dollar companies and you know your arr is a fraction um. So I feel like I spend a lot of my time building people up in order for them to be the best selves they can be for their business. Have you experienced that with your transition and with helping leaders understand your value and know that you're looking at them and not at just your history?

Lisa Talbot: 19:22

Yeah, that's really powerful. And the way that you you're saying it, I don't think I would have looked back and said yes, right away. I think, when you're saying, I was like I don't think that's what I'm doing, but the more that I've been thinking about it, just from you asking that it is. Yeah, I definitely go in as, like, I am not the expert here. I might have seen some things and I think that's the beauty of you know, of going into new industries. You know, small businesses can rain.

Lisa Talbot: 19:59

My client list has ranged from authors to doggy daycares to franchise owners, you know. So it's never the same piece. And when I was in corporate, it was like, okay, we want to implement this new system. And it was like, okay, let me just let me talk to this person and this person. And it was very, it wasn't cookie cutter, but it was very, it was very similar from one project to the next, whereas this is, um, could be, uh, you know, a big overhaul of implementing, you know, a SaaS solution for a business owner or it's, you know, streamlining some apps that they already have that are talking together.

Lisa Talbot: 20:38

So, yes, I think, I think, with just knowing that it's new every time I'm, I'm almost organically showing that I'm here to learn and I do. You know, part of my process is actually learning the business too, because some of my failure initially on was that they would say this is the problem, this is what I need help with, and I'd say, okay, and we tackle that one problem. And even though in my head I was like, oh, I bet it's a huger problem, but I'm going to make them happy first and you know, really focus on this. And it's kind of bit me because it's like, oh no, it's actually.

Lisa Talbot: 21:16

We got to take a step back and kind of look at the whole process and look at how the business is operating and and so, if it is like a physical, like in the dog daycare, uh, I did, you know, kind of work as a attendant, you know, and asked a bunch of questions and, yeah, to learn, and saw their sticky notes and, you know, tried to understand what their business was, and so, um, and even when we were doing you know, a current state analysis, I, you know, I was just kind of a note taker.

Lisa Talbot: 21:47

They were telling me everything, you know, yeah, and just saying, um, and you know, when they did things, it was like, oh, that's so awesome, you know, like, so I guess I was building them up because I was like, gee, you know, like, know, like I'm learning too, and I'm like, oh, it's genius, how did you think of that, you know? So I do think it is that it's that relationship building, it's that you know, building them up that, yes, they might have a problem, but they have all these other things that are working for them, or that that they might even not even notice either, right, like they're heads down trying to, uh, keep their business afloat, they don't realize, like, some of the good things that they're bringing. And so when I step in and I'm able to even like pinpoint all the great things that they're doing. I think that is a feather in their cap and is building them up, um, so I hope that I, that I'm helping them with their imposter syndrome. I know that you are.

Tonya J. Long: 22:45

There was an article I think it was a McKinsey article about a year and a half ago and it made me cringe when I saw the title, because the title was something to the effect of why every company moving forward should operate like a, like a software company, and I was like, oh you know, because I already. I mean, I'm from Tennessee, I live in the valley, but I see posts from friends from high school that say, why does California think it's so special? And so I. I have that imposter syndrome where I grew up on a tobacco farm and now I do much differently scaled things here. But helping other people realize their zones of genius.

Tonya J. Long: 23:28

I think we did learn things in our corporate careers that are helpful and I see a lot of small business owners kind of shrugging their shoulders and saying what lisa knows won't fit what I do, because lisa's works on really big things and I have and I and I think that's imposter syndrome saying no, no, no. You know you don't understand my doggy daycare. You probably had no experience with the doggy daycare prior to doing that program. Uh, but it's the critical thinking that we have about how to look at the customer, how to, how to make sure processes and systems talk with each other, to make sure that things that can be automated and repeatable are um, but there's a way to do it.

Tonya J. Long: 24:16

I believe believe that there's a big shift coming. I've made that clear as AI automates more and more. But I believe there's such value for people like you and me to go out into the rest of the world. I just I just coached an extremely senior person from one of the FANG companies last week and I told her from one of the FANG companies last week and I told her.

Tonya J. Long: 24:42

I said go be a CEO of a CPG company or a clothing retail company, get out of tech and apply your skills there, because of everything you do will be remarkable. It will be a different framework of helping them elevate and scale them. Elevate and scale um and and I believe there is so much value with what we can do. But all change comes back to the the people challenge, to working with people and keeping people whole in the process so that they are involved, communicated with and um satisfied that they have the strengths to move it forward when you step away from the project.

Lisa Talbot: 25:20

So that's why I think that's where the.

Lisa Talbot: 25:23

That's where, like, the true magic works right is when it sticks. You know, it's when the changes actually stick and the habits change. When the changes actually stick and the habits change and yeah, so, yeah, it's. It's when they get some aha moments and I can do this or I can't, you know, even when we get the habit to stick and they kind of think back of, like why were we doing it that way for so long? You know the those are kind of the fun moments that you know, bring me joy too, of like, okay, we're making progress here. We've made a few changes.

Lisa Talbot: 26:06

I think that, like the technical piece, the AI, I mean and I think you've said this is that it can be really scary and how do we make AI and technology not scary and usable. So it's not about completely taking the place, it's about how do we use it so that we can use AI appropriately and where it makes sense. But AI can't, you know, connect the dots physically in the doggy daycare, right, like that still needs a human person to say, you know, when you walk over here to check someone in and then walk over there to print something out, like there are two disconnected, you know, processes that we need to figure out how they work together. Right, right.

Tonya J. Long: 26:59

For what it's worth. My brain is racing with things you can do in a doggy daycare around location sensors.

Lisa Talbot: 27:08

Yeah.

Tonya J. Long: 27:08

And you know and we realize we we can't go full on with every single project, right, we have to tailor to the culture and the readiness for scale. What level is is? Is the customer um, ready to go to um? Yeah, you talked about um. You have a philosophy around small changes and I think of you as small changes, big impact. How did that small changes philosophy develop for you?

Lisa Talbot: 27:39

I think it, you know, it's really just been.

Lisa Talbot: 27:45

I wish I could say, like you know, august 17th is when I decided to start thinking this way, but I think it's just been. You know I'm I'm an avid runner and so I've ran a few half marathons and I've done some, you know, long distance swims, and it's that you know I print out the training and you start out with just three miles a day, or three miles, you know, and then two miles. You know you have this whole schedule and, uh, you know you cross them off and all of a sudden you're doing 12 miles and you're doing the race, and so it's just, it almost doesn't feel like it's hard work. You're just kind of, you know, making one mile, adding one mile every so often, and so I think that's it's really been organic from kind of those pieces of my life that uh, have trickled down into. You know also my you know change resistance of like okay, I can't change it all, like I can't overhaul everything, but I bet, if I did this one thing and make it stick, then I can do the next.

Lisa Talbot: 28:52

And so you know and I I've just brought that to small businesses and I think it came from corporate I probably could, you know, dive deep into my brain and find some times where I made a small but impactful piece. But when you're dealing with the clients that I have, you know they don't have the bank account to do overhauls and to stop you know kind of the work that's going on, and so you do have to find kind of creative ways to make changes that don't necessarily, you know, like uproot their whole business pieces and so and again, just going back to like making it stick, and so and and again, just going back to like making it stick. So if it is going to, you know, changing one thing is a lot easier than changing everything. And and you can eventually, you know, you kind of, when we do the analysis, we kind of, you know we take all the pain points, we're looking at it from like the 10,000 view and we're saying where are we going to get the most out of our efforts?

Lisa Talbot: 29:59

Right, like, is this one the biggest problem or is this the biggest problem or is this the biggest impact problem? Because it might be a really big problem but like the impact is really low and so why tackle that one? So it is just. You know, those are things. Again, I'll go back like AI can't figure that out right, like AI can't figure it out yet anyway. So you need that relationship between the client and myself to really make those decisions and find out where we should, you know, put the work where we should, you know, put the work Agreed.

Tonya J. Long: 30:41

I love the way you drew the comparison to your personal. You know personal transformation and the parallel to business transformation. You're a runner amazing and a swimmer, and so you talked about developing those plans that had you do incremental shifts in your routines to get to the level of a marathon. How do you get businesses to see the value and similar approaches, to crawl, walk, run, to starting small? Do you have a story you'd like to share about, about how you helped a client understand the value of something that seemed small but led to much longer horizon um impact?

Lisa Talbot: 31:29

Yeah, gosh, there's like a few yeah.

Lisa Talbot: 31:32

Um, and I think that there's like you could go from you know one stream to the other, the other. I I had a client that was just fed up, ready to pull you know they're pulling all their hair and you know they were ready just to like they were gonna put a pause on it. So they, you know, did e-commerce and they were like we're just I'm gonna stop all orders, I'm gonna stop everything, because I need to like redo this whole thing, okay. And then I could give you an example where someone said like I think we're good, it's painful, but like it's okay, like I'll just deal with it. You know, it makes me think of the Holy Grail.

Tonya J. Long: 32:11

Just a flesh wound, you know, and his arm's like flailing off. So Don't operate like flailing off so um, it's just a flesh wound.

Lisa Talbot: 32:19

I can't beat that left yeah, well, just live without it, it's fine. Yeah, um, and so I think if you go to I think in both cases that you know it it plays on a lot of my uh, you know soft skills, because I think how do? You change someone that doesn't really want to change you know and show them hey yeah, how do we do that?

Lisa Talbot: 32:44

to where it's like the other side is like whoa, hold down, like we can, you know, we can keep the orders going like let's really think about this um and uh. So I think it is like um, like it really depends on the person. It is playing, it's building that relationship of trust. It is, you know, sometimes leaning in to say, you know, I've seen this before and this is how we got through it, like kind of giving them that expert advice or saying like we're in it together so, like you know, if it doesn't work, we'll, we'll continue to work on it.

Lisa Talbot: 33:26

I think that you know there's never that ideal client where you're like, oh, I'm going to go in and it's going to be, you know, super easy and they'll just follow my methodologies and I'll be super quick and away we go. But I think when you're, when businesses are, can see that small shift. So whether you're ready to pull your hair out and you know, stop your business, versus like you're going to continue on, you know, even though you're really clunking along, it's really figuring out what their business is and a lot of times it's. You know, I have a data mindset. I think about data differently. You know for one individual they were doing all their communications by hand, so they would sit on their couch and text every night.

Lisa Talbot: 34:13

You know their clients the next day, you know their clients the next day and then you know and text, you know the clients that they already had and say hey, can you fill out this? You know survey and schedule your next appointment and all this. And so I just said, like you know, how long do you think that takes you? A week? And it was, like you know, five plus hours. It depends if the client texted back right away and they had to like converse back and forth and her appointments were only like an hour and a half to two hours and I was like okay, so if you're spending eight hours, that's four clients. Like you can't scale if you're spending that time with communications. And I think that was like the aha moment where she's like oh, whatever, I'm just watching tv, you know, I'm sitting on my couch.

Lisa Talbot: 34:57

It's not not really, you know, taken away from anything, but it's taking away your energy, it's taking away time that you could be with your family or, you know, like those things that really bring you joy, um, and so I think it's just like it can be that small of, like this is how many clients you're unable to have, or this is what the income is coming in, um, that can really make a profound difference. And we ended up putting you know some you know it's a fairly easy, some, you know automation, in that you know that basically went from her calendar to her clients and back again and have a calendar that her clients could schedule themselves, so she wasn't scheduling it anymore.

Lisa Talbot: 35:42

Yeah, so it can be. Uh, I think maybe that's. It is like it's the easy way to go. If you can show them one easy thing, then they're more. You know.

Tonya J. Long: 35:52

Adapt to keep coming with me on the journey yeah, and in the example you just gave, what immediately flashed in my mind was that wasn't just an advantage for her to get out of her couch scheduling at night, but it was. It was an improvement for her customers to see, for them to have some agency in the process, because she could care less if John moves from Tuesday to Thursday. Yeah, but for.

Tonya J. Long: 36:18

John to be able to do that on his own and it be done and not require the back and forth. Those are changes with big impact on both sides.

Lisa Talbot: 36:28

And I probably wouldn't have rescheduled. If I was John, I wouldn't have rescheduled because I would have been like oh gosh, I'll just keep it as Tuesday.

Tonya J. Long: 36:35

Yeah, or I'll just cancel and do this another time, right, rather than say, oh, that's true. Friction in the process causes loss, loss of interest, loss of engagement, and those things are so easy for people like us to see and automate, but other people, like you said earlier, that are in their flow, in their process, and especially when they've convinced themselves. You know, I'm just sitting on the couch with the kids watching TV before we go to bed. It's only a couple hours a night, but you know, it's not just that couple of hours, it's the energy, so I love it. I was also thinking we had an interesting conversation when we talked earlier about I don't know, you use chat GPT as a thought partner, and you know I do too. Chat GPT is the first thing I say hello to when I wake up Chat GPT or CLUD, depending on what I'm doing, but I'd love that you use an LLM as a thought partner.

Tonya J. Long: 37:41

For me, the biggest transition in going from corporate leader to entrepreneur was the lack of a team to brainstorm with, not having people immediately at hand to collaborate on approaches with. To collaborate on approaches with. So how are you helping with regard to ChatGPT, claude? Whatever LLM suits you best for your needs. How are you helping small businesses think about AI and using things as simple as ChatGPT without it being a threat?

Lisa Talbot: 38:23

That's a really good question. It is done tiptoeing, I think, because there is this scare, as people have, is that it's going to eliminate people or businesses, or yeah, and I think that showing them examples within their industry is really helpful to say, like you know, I use chad gpt for a wide range of things, right? So I think when you start showing some ideas of that in their sector or that's, you know those pain points, I think I think I I've only had one client that's really been receptive to AI as a thought partner, a assistant, and it they're they were, you know. Again, it's like that perfect client, right, they're on the edge, they know it, they know what's happening. How can I kind of be with it versus be against it? And it is being about intentional, right.

Lisa Talbot: 39:40

So, again, they're a creative person. They see themselves as, like you know, they don't want ChatGPT to take away the creative and I was like, well, it's not, it doesn't have to, you don't have to ask it to take away your creative part. It's like let's take away some of these admin parts that are not, you know, using your. They're draining you. You know, like let's use chat GPT on things that drain you, versus like what you brings you joy. And so, I think, as as it evolved, as I evolved, as you know, the solutions evolve. I think AI will definitely be a part of those, definitely be a part of those, but I think that they'll, I think they'll, you know, be different in how it, how it evolves, and so it's just being intentional, I think, on how you use it and how you, how your clients use it.

Tonya J. Long: 40:35

Yeah, it's one thing to use an LLM as a thought partner and you and I are probably wired from the get-go to do that because it's because you know we like tools. That's just how we're wired, um. It's another thing to get you know people who aren't wired that way to use it as an ongoing thought partner. But I feel certain that you have, you know, you've got a technical and automation background, so I just can't imagine that you haven't implemented baby AI frameworks within the small businesses that you've had with limited resources right.

Lisa Talbot: 41:17

After I leave, how could they continue the evolution of their business? Cause, that's one thing. You know that I've I've tried to say like, and this, this is ongoing. This isn't just like a one and done. Otherwise you're going to like, call me back in five to seven years and say, okay, the systems are, you know, legacy, now we need new ones.

Lisa Talbot: 41:38

And so maybe by just using it, as that thought partner is like, how do I integrate this? Or how do I automate? You know there's so many cool toys. I say toys, they're really tools. You know I'm I'm working in Google.

Lisa Talbot: 42:05

How do I make an automation for my uh, for my calendar invite? Right, how do I? Um, and it will give you step-by-step pieces. Uh, it will give you probably two suggestions, right, here's how you can know code it, and here's how you can code it. And so, if you're uh, so that if you don't even know what code is, you can still implement it just as easy.

Lisa Talbot: 42:25

So I think that's where.

Lisa Talbot: 42:28

I think that's where ChatGPT or, you know, an assistant, would be helpful, and there's so many now.

Lisa Talbot: 42:34

I feel like anything you open up now there's an assistant for that, right, so I do think there's benefit in it, um, it's. So I do think there's benefit in it. I think that, um, I think it's just creating that relationship with that client to say like um, you know, here's how you could use it. And then I'm always thinking, tanya, as we're talking, like there's almost this if we go way back in our conversation about imposter syndrome, like I think that there is a like if I use AI, I'm cheating, almost thought you know, like and I think that's the narrative we have to kind of get over is like you're not cheating everyone, you know it's like everyone else is doing it. Like you might as well be on the curve or trying to get you know it's like everyone else is doing it. Like you might as well be on the curve or trying to get you know beyond the curve, um, and so there might be some way I can incorporate that with my clients too.

Tonya J. Long: 43:31

I think that's important. Um, humans are arrogant. Um, we want to think that we can and should do everything, and it is a mindset shift to recognize the value of power tools. I grew up on a farm. I can make a hole in a piece of wood with an awl, an AWL with an awl, and it will take me hours. Or I can get my power drill out and I can make a precision hole inside of five seconds.

Tonya J. Long: 44:12

So why would I grind and toil with an awl to make the same hole that I can do in five seconds with a power tool? Nobody thinks that's cheating, they think that's being smart. I grew up with a set of World Book Encyclopedias Read. There must have been 20, 25 volumes because they were by alphabet and I was a nerd. I read through those and that was my research. It didn't matter that they were 10 or 15 years old.

Tonya J. Long: 44:43

It was what I had at home to research with through those and that was my research. It didn't matter that they were 10 or 15 years old, it was what I had at home to research with. I don't think anybody today looks at using the internet to find out things they don't know, to do research. So 100% identify with what you're saying about it. It feels like it's not my work if I'm enlisting the help of an AI tool. But we got to get past that Because to me it's just like from all to power drill and from world book encyclopedias to you know, for years it's just been search and regular, more regular search, more regular search. You and I know there are AI components embedded in the search process, but still it hasn't been consumer grade LLMs in use until just recently. But still this is just, I think, our next evolution of how do we work.

Tonya J. Long: 45:34

As a sidebar, I taught a course at a university in San Francisco to the graduate school faculty and it was all about them changing their methodology for assessing student learning. Now, I'm not a student learning expert, that's not my background, it's not what I do but it was more about opening dialogue with the faculty over the course of a day about how we are shifting as a population, and you can imagine how faculty looks at students using AI tools, as it's not their work, but it is. It's just like using a calculator. It's just like using, you know, the internet instead of the world with encyclopedias, and the faculty senate wanted me to teach this course with an angle on. We have to change our curriculums and the way we measure students, because student output, the value and contribution of student learning, will be using AI tools, and so we have to shift the paradigm from rote learning to experiential learning, which AI very much supports. So fascinating discussions, but this is all a mindset shift, because I feel the same way.

Tonya J. Long: 46:51

I sometimes engage a couple of different LLMs on my LinkedIn pieces. I could take four hours to write something brilliant, or I can work with an ALM and knock it out in 20 minutes, and it's more important that I get and everything is mine. You know I could go on and on about how you get from an LLM what you put into it. You ask it what color the sky is, it will tell you blue. But if you embellish, you know the conversation will tell you blue. But if you embellish, you know the conversation. The creativity you deploy is what helps you get to an 80% response with an AI. But it very much is, I think, a shift for us to not think of it as it's not my work and it feels inauthentic. But it's not, it's wholly you. What were you about to say?

Lisa Talbot: 47:42

Yeah, I was just thinking it's just like. We still have to be critical thinkers, right, we still have to take the content. I mean that's anywhere, right. So if I read your LinkedIn post, I still am thinking critically about, like, what you're posting. But I'm not thinking I wonder if she created this or not. Not thinking I wonder if she created this or not.

Lisa Talbot: 48:06

You know it's not like, and so I think that that same. That's with any you know social media or any text. I mean, even when we were doing research projects, you know we always had to have a. You know it couldn't just be from any dot com, it had to be from, you know, a specific government or universities or whatever. So I still think we have some boundaries around it. Right, we still are critical thinkers of what you know, these machine learners like spit out, and so I think that's still where it's gonna be right, like, as we still have to balance that and have boundaries around it of like, and I'm not going to put anything out there, right, like I'm not going to just like ask chat GPT to make me a post and post it and it has nothing to do with me, right, like, I still it's still representing of me right.

Lisa Talbot: 48:57

Like yeah, so yeah, I just think if we continue to be critical thinkers, yeah, so yeah, I just think if we continue to be critical thinkers, you know, ai can really, can really be a benefit, and I do, on occasion, will look at pictures with my kids and be like do you think this is real or do you think this is?

Tonya J. Long: 49:14

not real.

Lisa Talbot: 49:15

You know, and just trying to show them and I've done my own, you know, photocopying or photoshopping myself, you know in different places, and so I show them like, hey, this is, this is mom and this is mom, even though it's the same mom and there's different backgrounds Right Like, just so that they're thinking like, not everything I see is real. Right Like, it can be photoshopped and AI generated, and so I think there is some learning around it too, about how to be critical thinkers. Agreed, agreed. So I mean, time will tell right.

Tonya J. Long: 49:53

If what we're saying today is last one year, five years, I heard someone interview really early on in this generative AI journey and he spoke about how most humans will think they are smarter than the technology and look no further than when a mapping application tells us how to get somewhere that we've already been, we're like no, no, no, that's not the fastest route. Oh, no, no, I never take 3rd.

Lisa Talbot: 50:24

Street.

Tonya J. Long: 50:24

I always go down Sacramento Avenue and how often when we second-guess technology, we're absolutely wrong. And I had this experience a week ago. I was going to see a friend for lunch and it had me taking this weird route and I was like maybe there's a wreck on the interstate. And I looked ahead and the line wasn't red. I was like this is just being flaky. This is no, no, no, this is because it had me going this way out of the way.

Tonya J. Long: 50:56

You know, smaller streets loop instead of just heading down the highway. Sure enough, there was tree trimming and I and I I was 30 minutes late to lunch and I was like, and it was just another one of those where I was like I thought I was smarter than the technology and and and I just dismissed the technology as, yeah, they don't know, and had I just taken side street, I would have been to lunch on time instead. Right, that I was quite late and I was thankful it was a friend, but still, I think we do try to second guess things, that we need to let do the work for us, right? So anyway, all interesting, I want to move back to some personal reflection.

Tonya J. Long: 51:47

You are a private business owner, you're a mom, you're a runner, you travel, so how do you balance all those things? Because they're all important to you? None are a sidebar. So you know your company name has True North in it and I love that and you seem to really have line of sight on your True North. So what's your wisdom for our audience about balancing all those things that are important to you, about?

Lisa Talbot: 52:21

balancing all those things that are important to you. Gosh, I wish I had the magic sauce. Yeah, true North is really, you know, we spend a lot of time on the water and it just really resonated with me and I think, when I think about my true North is um, you know, is all those things, but I'm I'm really picky, you know. I do not say yes to everything. I say no a lot If it doesn't align with, uh, what I'm working towards or who I am. You know my personal values, or um, and it changes. So you know what I say no to. You know personal values or um, and it changes. So you know what I say no to. You know, this season might be different than next season, and so the advice I give is you know it's is always like looking inside yourself, right, like reflecting on yourself. I, my sister, who has always told me to journal a lot and I've always ignored her, yeah, and I have the same.

Tonya J. Long: 53:30

I have so many journals I've bought to. Like you know, I love paper and pens, but then I just don't stick with. So so keep going, because I really want to hear about this journal. Yeah, because I've ignored it as well.

Lisa Talbot: 53:42

So I wouldn't say I've been journaling, but I have been reflecting, which I think is very much the, you know, the basis of journaling and and so I've been really just reflective on my interactions and the things that I've done. And I'll kind of go off on a little tangent. Here is I, you know, I go running in the mornings with my neighbor, mom, friends, and we have this kind of saying of tacos or pickles, you know, like they. I love tacos, I love, you know, thinking about what kind of tacos I'm going to make for dinner. Or even, after the fact, I think, gosh, those were such good tacos we made, you know. And so that's the feeling that I want.

Lisa Talbot: 54:29

And so whenever we're making decisions or whenever I'm, like, at a crossroads, I think, ok, is this going towards the tacos or is it going towards the fried pickles that I hate and make me cringe, and I, you know, can't even think about it. But because I, you know, it's kind of just this little silly thing. But so when I'm reflecting on things though it's that feels tangible, right, like I tangibly can eat some tacos does that make me feel the same way? And if it doesn doesn't, then I say no to it or I try to limit it, or, um, because I do have you know the priorities and there's only so much time in the day, uh, and I'm just really focused on making sure that the things that I want to get done I do that the things that I want to get done, I do.

Tonya J. Long: 55:31

Wow, I mean I.

Tonya J. Long: 55:32

I love that you use discernment and being very intentional to make choices, to make every choice, because it's those little things that we get stuck in, that that take us that, that that that cost us our energy, that we lose time on. Um, I think that making the transition from corporate to to private business owner is a tremendous transition that requires that kind of intentional thinking, because things will dramatically change and there's so many gaps when you leave behind a business that is set up to serve you doing your best work. So, when you think about how you have gone about being intentional, reflecting, what advice would you give along those lines to people who are because there's many of them out there that listen to this what advice would you give them about how to contemplate and make decisions about their corporate transition or exit? To be frank, that's coming for a lot of us. I don't know.

Lisa Talbot: 56:47

It might sound cliche, but I do think it is that reflection of who you are. You know a mood board or a Pinterest board Like those are. You know even just a simple scrap of paper. You know what are your tacos. You know what. How are you going to get there?

Tonya J. Long: 57:12

Um you know, and I think it's just starting, I think that's the hardest part, is just like, do one.

Lisa Talbot: 57:15

Yeah, yep, just get started. Try one small thing, one small experiment. Did it lead you to tacos? Tacos, you know. If it didn't, then try something else. You know, if I think we're lucky with the technology that we have today and that you can do a lot of things that don't take a big investment of time or energy, that you could more energy, that you could, you know, but you could do a lot of things. But if you just kind of reflect in yourself and say what is your true north and stick with it, and I think the other things start to fall in place. As soon as you're kind of going, going north, the other pieces kind of fall in place. Going north, the other pieces kind of fall in place, and the things that weren't causing you joy, you know, you soon kind of get rid of those. At least that's what I hope for everyone that's listening is. I feel like the more I've been true to myself, the more true things come.

Tonya J. Long: 58:20

Yes, agreed, and and it feels cliche because it's been said before, but that doesn't make it wrong it is being ready to apply the wisdom that everyone around us shares. I think you've probably had this experience, but some of my biggest aha moments were embarrassing because it's like the universe has been telling me this for years and I've just not been ready to apply what I've heard. And so there's nothing wrong with with comments that feel cliche because they're not. They are gathered wisdom from others who have succeeded, and then from your own success, and I think that they they eventually reach people to to help them have that same aha moment of I've been hearing this for two years, and, and, and, and I too, can benefit from this and do this.

Tonya J. Long: 59:22

So thank you.

Lisa Talbot: 59:25

So it's not just like done, right Like it's like in six months, do it again.

Tonya J. Long: 59:30

Do it again, you know, Get used to the constant it's iterative, yeah, constant change and even things.

Lisa Talbot: 59:39

Try again. You know, something worked, didn't work two years ago, when you said I'm going to try it. I'm going to leave my corporate job but you know things have changed in two years. With people that we work with, that it's okay to resubmit an idea forward in your mind?

Tonya J. Long: 59:54

Yeah, if it feels like now might be the time.

Lisa Talbot: 1:00:14

So and it aligns to your true north.

Tonya J. Long: 1:00:18

Which leads me to what's your vision for true North. Where, where do you think you want to take it?

Lisa Talbot: 1:00:29

Yeah, um, you know I probably should have this answer like down pat, because I do ask my clients this, you know. But I think that, uh, I want to continue to bring joy to myself, you know, to have that always learning mentality and then bringing you know, allowing for others just to be able to do what they want. And, you know, it's kind of like a win-win right, like I get to do what I want and they get to do what they want, and so I hope that continues for many years to come and and if not, that's okay. Right, that's what we've been talking about is it's okay to pivot and change and, um, try something new, and um, so I'm, I'm really open as long as I'm going to be happy, and and I found a way to, you know, work, but that aligns with my values and my, you know, travel commitments. Yeah, and, and so I hope that continues as well.

Tonya J. Long: 1:01:59

I love the tacos and pickles. I will.

Lisa Talbot: 1:02:01

I will borrow that.

Tonya J. Long: 1:02:04

It's a great way. Where can listeners?

Lisa Talbot: 1:02:14

find out more about you or get in touch with True North if they'd like to work with you. Yeah, truenorthpmsolutionscom is my website. I'm also on LinkedIn, both myself and True North PM Solutions, and my email is also on all those social media. So please reach out and we can talk about tacos or you know other places that bring joy.

Tonya J. Long: 1:02:43

to get you back to your true north, I love it and I so appreciate the time today and the. There's been a lot of wisdom, but I think there's also been a lot of assurance assurance for people that this isn't necessarily magic and it's not um, you don't have to make it bigger than it is, just make small steps and make progress toward what you want. And that may it feels cliche when I say it, but, my goodness, we all struggle with it. So I think it's relevant to talk about it and show people examples like yours, where it has really turned out beautifully. So, everyone, this is RESET, where purpose meets possibility. And this has been a wonderful conversation with Lisa Talbot, a project management expert who traded in her corporate playbook for a mission to help small businesses breathe. Thanks everyone, have a wonderful day. Thanks for joining us on RESET. Remember, transformation is a journey, not a destination. So until next time, keep exploring what's possible. I'm Tonya Long and this is home. This is RESET.